Atheism/Theism thread

[FFRN00B90210]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

someone lock this or something, none of this is critical thinking.

devonin, you're just digging yourself a hole responding to this guy who is obviously just not very bright.

[adlp]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

i think this topic should be locked on every forum from any website because this is how it will always turn out

[FFRN00B90210]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

natalya simonova detected

[Nullifidian]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

Just because it doesn't change the vocal individual's opinion on a forum doesn't mean it doesn't change other people's opinions.

Also FFRN00B90210, I did read your post and I agree with you, it's pretty ridiculous. The fact you mentioned that these discussions turn into fucking bookworks is quite tiring. It's basically people's ignorance/inability to google something being answered with evidence (wich is usually long if well substantiated) and as soon as that evidence is posted they shift to some other point where evidence contradicts their beliefs requiring MORE evidence to disprove beliefs that need validation in the first place, not disproval.

[JJTrixX]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

Just because it doesn't change the vocal individual's opinion on a forum doesn't mean it doesn't change other people's opinions.

Well said. I'm always glad to get these atheists/agnostics thinking. Sorry for assuming you were an atheist devonin. I'm interested to know what your belief/knowledge-of/philosophy is. I'm always open to an honest discussion of any belief including my own.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

It's basically people's ignorance/inability to google something being answered with evidence (wich is usually long if well substantiated) and as soon as that evidence is posted they shift to some other point where evidence contradicts their beliefs requiring MORE evidence to disprove beliefs that need validation in the first place, not disproval.

'tis called "moving the goalposts"

I think my frustration comes from the fact that nearly every single religious person I've ever encountered does the exact same stuff during an argument. After a certain point I'm just convinced that they don't *really* care that much about what's true, but rather what makes them feel the best.

A big part of it, too, is education. To be an atheist (and to understand why it's technically the "better" option if your goal is truth value) requires an understanding of logic, physics, statistics, biology, history, philosophy, astronomy, psychology/cognitive biases, chemistry, etc -- and you can't really provide all that education to someone yourself, let alone in one sitting -- and it's not like they really care to listen most of the time anyway.

You can tell someone that they're moving the goalposts / invoking argument from ignorance / appealing to utility / using a false equivalence until the cows come home, but at the end of the day they simply don't care.

[Wayward Vagabond]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

...but at the end of the day they simply don't care.

which is what makes arguments like this pointless to be in. watching them though is a completely different story

[Reincarnate]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

I don't even find them fun to watch anymore because they usually unravel the same way, and it honestly just makes me depressed that we're so far behind other first-world countries when it comes to this crap, lol. We'll get there eventually, but it's so long overdue.

[FFRN00B90210]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

I don't even find them fun to watch anymore because they usually unravel the same way, and it honestly just makes me depressed that we're so far behind other first-world countries when it comes to this crap, lol. We'll get there eventually, but it's so long overdue.

pretty much man

[Choofers]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

"Do not take the lord's name in vain" is pretty ironic considering how vain "the lord" actually is.

[Choofers]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

Also I want to post this.

http://www.fstdt.com/

There are some hilarious quotes on the top 100 page. Actually, they're all hilarious.

"Mathematics is also great proof of God. How is it possible that:

98
x72

can be figured out by carrying a digit over the top? What if that didn't work? How would we multiply without calculators?

If carrying over the one on top of the 9 did not work, how would we multiply? Seems awfully convenient to me that it "just happened" like that?"

[xVaLoRx]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

"No, God's Penis is not a biological organ. I never said God's Penis was the same as man's penis. Obviously it wouldn't be. That is why I pointed out God has a Holy, Righteous Penis. That is to say, it's not the same as man's corrupted, fleshy one. "

what

[Cavernio]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

"God exists in everyone. Do I think atheists are bad people? Absolutely not. Do I think they are currently lost? Absolutely."

If you didn't emotionally feel God's love, would you still believe in God? If you never felt good when you prayed, if you lost the ability to love, would you still believe in God?

I lost my religion not because I suddenly thought 'God probably doesn't exist'. I thought that God probably didn't exist long before. I believed in God because god felt so damned real. I lost faith because of physiological problems and I got very depressed. I looked for God for a long time after that, quite a few years, before having to accept that all that wonderful emotion I felt was NOT God existing in me but me fooling myself, or in others words me perhaps just me loving myself through imagination. Beliefs are very strong and they ultimately reside in your emotions. If you never got emotionally attached to God, you wouldn't have faith, and I can't imagine why you'd ever follow a religion. That becomes so clear when you lose your emotions or they go all wonky.

I'm sure at this point you're going to pray for my soul or some such no matter what I say jj, but I just can't believe such crazy stuff like Jesus was God's son and when he died our sins are forgiven. Am I lost? No.

Devonin, you have a very jaded view of belief in God, and you seem to fail to understand that most people who believe in God have the ultimate thing that everyone wants in life, love. Forever, always, undying love. Forget about all the bullshit, about all the rules and weird beliefs. All that matters to them is that they're in love with the supreme being of all existence, and they feel God's love back.
What you say about fear is true for some people and for much of christianity so I understand, but my church never fed us fear. Can't bring to mind a single instance.
If you want to make a religious person not have faith, it's like trying to tell someone not to love their kid. It's not going to happen unless some sort of serious bubble is broken for them personally.
I suspect that for most people there's the possibility that God may exist is more than enough to make someone believe the feelings they'd have planted in them since they were kids have to be because of God. Also doesn't help that there's plenty of mystique in existence.


JJ, I get that people aren't perfect, that we know next to nothing, etc, that we can't trust ourselves to possibly even know what the BEST thing is in terms of morality. I even get that that means we have to put our trust in God...if God were something that actually exists. Atheists can accept that we don't know, that we can't fathom so many things. But they don't accept that that means there HAS to be something out there that knows us and that has a plan. It seems like you're restricting your mind because it's too hard to not believe in God. If you can accept that God just exists and has no beginning or end, then it's no harder to accept those same things of existence.

One last thing, fundamentalist christianity's not going to die in the US. They don't believe in birth control.

[BOSS_pjpaveloffga]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

I want to tell you guys a little story.

Many years ago I got stranded in a parking lot because my car wouldn't start. I had no phone and it was a neighborhood that I was not familiar with. I had nowhere to go or call. All of a sudden after sitting in the parking lot for about 20 mins, a tow truck comes down the street and sees me.

The guy said to me, "Boy you are very lucky. I never ever ever ever come down this street. Usually I turn on the street before this one every night but I missed it tonight so I made the next right. This never happened in all my 20 years on the job."

To me, that was God sending me help despite the fact he is still remaining hidden and I can't see Him anywhere.

How else can someone explain that? A guy decided to come down a street he never turned down in 20 years and it just happened to be at the exact moment I was stuck? What if he turned down the street before that like he did every night for 20 years?

He even told me "I don't know how I missed that turn. Usually it's like clockwork and I don't even have to think about it."
Obviously god exsists.

[Mollocephalus]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

Devonin, you have a very jaded view of belief in God, and you seem to fail to understand that most people who believe in God have the ultimate thing that everyone wants in life, love. Forever, always, undying love. Forget about all the bullshit, about all the rules and weird beliefs. All that matters to them is that they're in love with the supreme being of all existence, and they feel God's love back.
What you say about fear is true for some people and for much of christianity so I understand, but my church never fed us fear. Can't bring to mind a single instance.
If you want to make a religious person not have faith, it's like trying to tell someone not to love their kid. It's not going to happen unless some sort of serious bubble is broken for them personally.
I suspect that for most people there's the possibility that God may exist is more than enough to make someone believe the feelings they'd have planted in them since they were kids have to be because of God. Also doesn't help that there's plenty of mystique in existence.

What you say about the emotional attachment to religion is quite interesting and also very true for many people, but please do remember that the same people who are in undying love with god may also fall prey to the fear of the punishment. The great love of god is even sometimes used to justify actions that are in normal occasions by the same people deemed as sinful. Coercition through emotional channels goes both ways.

The point is, whether one, or the other, or both are in effect for one person, that one person is in a big loophole. Moral values aren't really understood and radicated inside them, they are rather accepted as a whole with the faith, similarly to how you would accept a license of agreement. That's what makes it so dangerous.