Atheism/Theism thread

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

Going to what Izzy said, religion does have a heavy focus on death. Looking forward to an afterlife with a currently terrible life situation? Go kill yourself, God will forgive you, and you go to heaven! It also doesn't help that extremists can glorify suicide/violence by saying God will compliment them for doing so. Or, always fear that you might accidentally commit a sin, and then get sent to hell when you die.

It also doesn't require a religion to figure out that there are certain essential rules needed for any group to survive. For example, a society cannot just have people murdering or everyone would just be afraid of each other. That leads to distrust and miscommunication, and no society would be able to exist under such pandemonium.

[star reaper]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

Going to what Izzy said, religion does have a heavy focus on death. Looking forward to an afterlife with a currently terrible life situation? Go kill yourself, God will forgive you, and you go to heaven! It also doesn't help that extremists can glorify suicide/violence by saying God will compliment them for doing so. Or, always fear that you might accidentally commit a sin, and then get sent to hell when you die.

It also doesn't require a religion to figure out that there are certain essential rules needed for any group to survive. For example, a society cannot just have people murdering or everyone would just be afraid of each other. That leads to distrust and miscommunication, and no society would be able to exist under such pandemonium.

...wow no one seems to understand the gospel...

[Dorby]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

... or they are just dealing with reality and not using a crutch to help them deal with life.

[Nullifidian]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

"But knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable." -Carl Sagan

Death is only "bleak" after being spoon fed an over-glorifying story of afterlife. This life is your only life, so I'd rather not waste it waiting for an afterlife.

[JJTrixX]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

I don't know.

You don't know because you have yet to know the love of God. One day you will.

@ Dossar, let me shed some light on your statement. You can not commit suicide and go to heaven.

The Bible teaches us to trust, depend on, and believe in God throughout its length. (Romans 8:28 is one example.) To take your own life would show no faith in God. Notice that although the prophets, apostles, and Jesus Christ were persecuted, tortured, and put to death; they did not commit suicide for an “easy out.” They “fought the good fight” to the end (see 2 Timothy 4:6-8).

One of the Commandments of God is: "Thou shall not commit murder." This includes murder upon yourself. You are making the choice to give up on life and accepting death as your way out.

Furthermore, you say, "It also doesn't require a religion to figure out that there are certain essential rules needed for any group to survive."

Let me ask you this: According to your very own logic, What would stop you from commiting an immoral act like stealing from an innocent man(outside your "group"), if you knew that the stolen item(such as food, money, jewelry, a car, etc.) would help you survive AND you knew that you would never get caught? Not only this, but a group of people that understand "certain essential rules" is exactly what a religion is. Atheists say very clearly that they dont follow any "absolute moralities" which is a fancier way of saying "certain essential rules".They say that anything and everything can be argued and be put up on the table for discussion, reasoning, disputing, etc. at any time.(qouted by Mr. Dawkins himself in a video interview i saw posted earlier by reincarnate I believe)

You also say, "For example, a society cannot just have people murdering or everyone would just be afraid of each other. That leads to distrust and miscommunication, and no society would be able to exist under such pandemonium."

You are implying that if religion didn't exist and everyone understood the concept you said above, there would be no murder. Just because it makes sense not to commit murder, doesn't mean people will not murder. There will always be people regardless of their beliefs whether they are atheists or theists that will kill others in this world because the world isn't perfect and never will be. All it takes is ONE individual to have a disagreement or seperate view on anything, and a ripple effect occurs where other people will also have seperate views. You can not create a perfect world here on earth where everybody agrees on everything and there is absolutely no violence, war, theivery, murder, etc. because this world is constantly being tampered and manipulated by negative forces, eg. the devil. The bible shows us how to lead a GOOD life in an imperfect world.

[ilikexd]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

You don't know because you have yet to know the love of God. One day you will.

I don't know because I didn't ask them.

They aren't theists.

[Nullifidian]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

What if your suicide saves millions of lives? If you sacrifice your own life to save millions of others, it's still a suicide.

Things aren't as black and white as the bible makes it out to be.

[rushyrulz]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

"Why do you think your family members aren't atheists?"
"I don't know I never asked them"
"IT'S BECAUSE YOU DON'T ACCEPT GOD'S LOVING GRACE THAT'S WHY!"

Am I the only one scratching their head at this argument? What does the belief of your family members have anything to do with self-perception of God?

[Pseudo Enigma]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

i am a strong independent atheist and i don't need no god's love

[Izzy]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

Romans 8:28
Timothy 4:6

Googled these and they have nothing to do with what you said. Therefore you argument is moot. Kill yourself.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+8%3A28&version=NIV

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Timothy+4%3A6-8&version=NIV

No mention of suicide in the slightest. Of course they are purposefully ambiguous so that you can make them mean whatever you feel like when most convenient to you.

Feel free to try and find something that explicitly mentions suicide.

[JJTrixX]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

I don't know because I didn't ask them.

They aren't theists.

Then you lied. I asked you if your family members where atheists, and you replied, "No". Now you are saying you havent asked them. Which is it?

refer to post #373, let's hear your reasoning on this one my friend.

[ilikexd]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

Then you lied. I asked you if your family members where atheists, and you replied, "No". Now you are saying you havent asked them. Which is it?

I did not lie.

No, you asked me, "Why do you think your family members aren't atheists?"

I answered, "I don't know." because I have not asked them to justify/defend/reason their ideas about God.

[korny]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

Going back to the whole "mormonism is the craziest 1 of them all", I always find this really funny when people say this as if it strengthens any sort of argument. As an agnostic and ex mormon having been raised and gone through it all and currently living with my devout family members, i must say i have never witnessed a more cohesive element in any sort of family i have ever encountered. My family is the shit and we have all grown to respect and understand each other in ways more accepting than you would find in practically any other sect of christianity or even non religious. Although each case is circumstantial, regarding this topic specifically people just don't know what the fuck they're talking about and follow the stigma like sheep. My point is this basically, i feel that my families religion makes them not feel the need to ask enough questions about the nature of reality and what is and what isn't, and that can at times genuinely frustrate me, but my family stands out, period. In numerous ways i have been complimented by how unique my family operates, and this can most definitely be attributed to the immense focus their religion has on family itself, and quite honestly, i wouldn't trade it for anything. Religion can be a very good thing, and yes, it can be god awful. Accretion, evolution, etc, my parents believe in all of that, they just so happen to believe a god was behind all of it.

[JJTrixX]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

Great, Happy Birthday btw. Are your family members atheists?

No.

Why do you think that is?

I don't know.

You don't know because you have yet to know the love of God. One day you will.

I don't know because I didn't ask them.

They aren't theists.

I did not lie.

No, you asked me, "Why do you think your family members aren't atheists?"

I answered, "I don't know." because I have not asked them to justify/defend/reason their ideas about God.

You say they arent atheists. You also say they arent theists. You also say you have not asked them to justify/defend/reason their ideas about God.

You must be confused then. If your family believes in a God, then they are theists. If you don't understand why they are theists, that doesnt mean they aren't theists. It doesn't seem like they are agnostic, it's more of a matter that you just haven't spoke with them on the subject. You still lied though even if wasn't intentional, you just didn't realize it.

[ilikexd]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

That's not the question i asked you. I asked you, "Are you close with your family? Mother, father, brothers, sisters?"

Yeah I just celebrated my birthday today with my family.

Great, Happy Birthday btw. Are your family members atheists?

No.

Why do you think that is?

I don't know.

You don't know because you have yet to know the love of God. One day you will.

I don't know because I didn't ask them.

They aren't theists.

Then you lied. I asked you if your family members where atheists, and you replied, "No". Now you are saying you havent asked them. Which is it?

You made a mistake.

"I don't know" was a response to "Why do you think they aren't atheists?"
"No" was a response to "Are your family members atheists?"