Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

e.

So, AJ & Choof, don't come fucking shooting ya mouths off when obviously you can NOT tell me I'm fucking wrong here. As a co-HOST of the official, AJ, you should have fucking thought about situations that could arise and been professional.

situation a: plan for a tiebreaker for every round for the official and take double the length to plan or longer to feasibly cover every spot

situation b: structure the tournament with accepted files, use accepted files for tiebreaking whenever possible, and if a situation arises with a range that wasn't covered in the batch outside of the direct structure of the tournament, postpone the tournament to get a fair file and potentially not receive a file that correlates with the tournament structure

situation c: structure the tournament with accepted files, use accepted files for tiebreaking whenever possible, and then plan to fill a situation when it arises immediately

what I've said before to both you and Middie, it is impossible to predict tiebreakers anywhere in the tournament. We had nearly the entire tournament structure filled out with no worries, but when the tiebreaker in D6 showed up, there was nothing in our possession from TWO BATCHES and other files stockpiled. You and Middie are directly targeting me because there were five other files inserted into the game without batch judgment to introduce the tournament, but no one even bothered to mention those when they could have just as easily been looked up to see if they were judged. Had the tiebreaker in D6 not happened, this whole argument would have easily been avoided. In the case of the tournament, I'd much rather satisfy the players playing in the tournament by keeping the tournament moving than interrupting the tournament by trying to get one file.

I'd be much more inclined to be respectful to you, but since you're sitting here flaming me for doing the right thing, I'll just say this: you really need to stop crying over something that you have absolutely no control over. Aside from Middie, no one else was complaining, and the reception towards my simfile was positive. You guys are sitting here saying that I circumvented batch submission as if I inserted the file specifically to avoid the batch, when in reality, I inserted the file to keep the tournament moving.

You can keep sitting here cussing up a storm as if it will solidify your opinion, but honestly, it's just making you look really whiny.

EDIT:

Tbh I think "drama" (as long as not offensive) is necessary to spark debate on key issues for the game's progression. This is the most activity this thread has had in a while and lots of great points were made.

I don't mind discussion, but you can't sit here and tell me this isn't rude/intended to target:

e.

So, AJ & Choof, don't come fucking shooting ya mouths off when obviously you can NOT tell me I'm fucking wrong here. As a co-HOST of the official, AJ, you should have fucking thought about situations that could arise and been professional.

It's quite easy to eloquently make a suggestion like thesunfan and Charu had earlier in the thread, as opposed to annoying/targeting posts with caps lock/bold to make a snappy emphasis to make a point that really has no merit being made.

[psychoangel691]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

Even with the amount of charts accepted in the queue, it would get gradually difficult to pick tiebreakers. Although... this statement does throw in some ideas. We could put up a special batch just for the official tournaments, which would take serious planning for difficulty choices for each round in each division, tiebreaker choices, rating the charts, etc. However, with the 6 month gap official tournaments, this plan could only be possible if the tournaments were back to being hosted for each year. Internal batches are unfortunately, the last resort in order to get stuff in in order to fulfill tiebreakers. Just gonna have to roll with it until there is a better solution.

A tournament specific batch could certainly be tried. I think with the general amount of files that are accepted and how difficult it is to pick up specific difficulties that it will still be tough though.

Tbh I think "drama" (as long as not offensive) is necessary to spark debate on key issues for the game's progression. This is the most activity this thread has had in a while and lots of great points were made.

I have no issues with a debate at all, but when it's to the point where people are just cussing and making rude comments it's just pointless then.

Edit: I still really think that overall they should try the system with keeping the "batch" open at all times. The idea was received well and never tried. If people aren't waiting months for batches I don't think they'll be flooding it. Then periodically x amount of files can be bundled and given to x amount of judges. This would help in instances where we're short judges too. It might be time to allow more judges the access to the email to be able to bundle the files as well in this case. Oh and also have an acceptance number rather than it switching every time. I think this would help with overall quality of charts, flow of the files coming in and maybe even help with tournament issues.

[Wayward Vagabond]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

Yo krunky I guarantee you that I will step a better file than you 9 times out of ten. Even the weakest of the judges will step a better file than you 7 times out of ten.

[kommisar]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

Yeah I guess his comments were a little counter-productive haha.

Generally speaking though I love to read heated discussions when intelligible


I pitched this idea to JX a while back but he said it wouldn't work because of laziness which I guess is true lol: kbo's judging system. Files can be submitted any time and judges judge when they can. Once enough judges have played said files, a verdict was automatically entered and the game manager oversaw the final verdict. This would require constant activity from judges but would lessen the work load all at once. People would have a monthly file
Cap like osu does, and judges would have that monthly deadline to judge after said file is submitted. The coded system on kbo did a lot automatically and AJ can vouch for how useful it was

[AlexDest]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

I pitched this idea to JX a while back but he said it wouldn't work because of laziness which I guess is true lol: kbo's judging system. Files can be submitted any time and judges judge when they can. Once enough judges have played said files, a verdict was automatically entered and the game manager oversaw the final verdict. This would require constant activity from judges but would lessen the work load all at once. People would have a monthly file
Cap like osu does, and judges would have that monthly deadline to judge after said file is submitted. The coded system on kbo did a lot automatically and AJ can vouch for how useful it was

Considering the amount of simfiles submitted within a day of an open batch, we'd have to limit the amount of files 1 person sends for a specific period of time.

This can definitely work though.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

The coded system on KBO was incredibly helpful and I can certainly vouch for the positives. However, I can also vouch for a few negatives, like chart detail being a bit more ignored/inconsistently judged in comparison to a manual run-through due to the custom-coded engine.

Sync was an issue on some songs simply because judges relied on the the on-site system rather than actually viewing it in SM/DDream/(etc). Obviously, the engine implementation wouldn't be the most possible thing to do with game's mechanics, and it wouldn't be feasible to judge files on appearance for the same reason. The system of constant, unbroken judging is a great way to reduce the load, but if KBO has taught me anything, it's that judgment fatigue happens very quickly. Deadlines make thing happens, and the more relaxed the deadlines get, the less likely it is that things will get done.

[psychoangel691]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

Yeah I guess his comments were a little counter-productive haha.

Generally speaking though I love to read heated discussions when intelligible


I pitched this idea to JX a while back but he said it wouldn't work because of laziness which I guess is true lol: kbo's judging system. Files can be submitted any time and judges judge when they can. Once enough judges have played said files, a verdict was automatically entered and the game manager oversaw the final verdict. This would require constant activity from judges but would lessen the work load all at once. People would have a monthly file
Cap like osu does, and judges would have that monthly deadline to judge after said file is submitted. The coded system on kbo did a lot automatically and AJ can vouch for how useful it was

Yeah that's why I avoided the judge when they can thing. I just view it like this.

- Batch opens with little to no warning.
- People freak out and rush to submit their full cap because they don't know when the next on is.
- The process takes a long ass time honestly lol.

So say the email is open at all times but files are still taken in bundles of x amount of files. Maybe adjust this based on whether there are 8 available to judge or 16 (just throwing examples) So technically they're still basically batched but it's not this unpredictable schedule where people feel inclined to rush and sacrifice quality to fill their cap.

Then being that JX has fairly limited ability I figure that another primary judge or two should have access to bundle these files and start a judging process.

I just think it's worth a shot to see if it impacts the quality of files and such. I mean when we first go to open it up again it's going to get flooded out because people have been waiting, but I think if it were left open we would get a reasonable flow and people wouldn't feel so pressured. Then none the less that could mean that there would be files in that could be thrown into a large event batch for something like the official at certain times as well. Plus allowing for us to search in there for potential tournament files and have them judged.

[kommisar]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

It would still limit the amount of files people can send per month, so we wouldn't necessarily be seeing more simfiles to judge.

Having a sort of editor to work through in ffr's engine would be cool too, rather than load everything up in stepmania (by editor I mean the ability to scroll through a file, and have time markers etc.)


I also think a new system could be implemented in FFR regarding difficulties. Many complain that there aren't enough new easier simfiles coming out in recent years. Maybe we could do like osu/ts and implement mandatory multiple charts? (minimum of 2, one hard one easy). This would make people think twice before dumping simfiles like it's going out of style (hehu) and force them to commit to the quality of one file. I'm certain having multiple charts is doable in FFR.

[iironiic]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

I like the idea of having the batch open at all times. I think it would also be very less time consuming for judges to assign a rating between 0-10 out of ten points, and not provide any commentary. If a stepartist wishes to know why they receive such a rating from a particular judge, they should make every effort to do so by shooting a PM, contacting them on Skype, etc.. The judges can then go in details explaining why they give that initial rating.

I suggest this because a) this will allow all of the judges to judge your file instead of having them split into different teams. b) Very less time consuming overall and is flexible to everyone's busy schedules. c) Allows better interaction between the stepartist and the judges to try and make the file a good addition to FFR. d) Minimizes contradictory comments and ratings between judges after discussion.

Opinions?

[psychoangel691]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

It would still limit the amount of files people can send per month, so we wouldn't necessarily be seeing more simfiles to judge.

Having a sort of editor to work through in ffr's engine would be cool too, rather than load everything up in stepmania (by editor I mean the ability to scroll through a file, and have time markers etc.)


I also think a new system could be implemented in FFR regarding difficulties. Many complain that there aren't enough new easier simfiles coming out in recent years. Maybe we could do like osu/ts and implement mandatory multiple charts? (minimum of 2, one hard one easy). This would make people think twice before dumping simfiles like it's going out of style (hehu) and force them to commit to the quality of one file.

I'm not looking to see more per say, I'm looking to reduce the rushed pressure people feel to fill their cap every batch since they don't ever know when the next will open. I'm more so looking for improved quality, which in turn would mean more accepted.

The editor thing was something I had always wished we could have with ffr (or something like it) after seeing KBO's thing when AJ was judging. I brought it up at some point I think to Jon but I don't know if it were something that was plausible.

I like the idea of having the batch open at all times. I think it would also be very less time consuming for judges to assign a rating between 0-10 out of ten points, and not provide any commentary. If a stepartist wishes to know why they receive such a rating from a particular judge, they should make every effort to do so by shooting a PM, contacting them on Skype, etc.. The judges can then go in details explaining why they give that initial rating.

I suggest this because a) this will allow all of the judges to judge your file instead of having them split into different teams. b) Very less time consuming overall and is flexible to everyone's busy schedules. c) Allows better interaction between the stepartist and the judges to try and make the file a good addition to FFR. d) Minimizes contradictory comments and ratings between judges after discussion.

Opinions?

The only thing I would say with this is that it might be hard for some judges to have all that one on one time with a simauthor or multiple depending. Maybe it can be more of a quicknote thing and then if someone really needs something clarified they can speak with the judge. Idk.

[kommisar]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

I don't think ALL judges will be forced to play every file, but a minimum amount of judges have to play said file for a verdict to be reached.

Comments could be left on each file, revised, and edited. Fixes could also be submitted through this system quicker and judges would be notified of updates.

making a system like this would probably require more effort than is available atm :/

[psychoangel691]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

I should have also noted in my previous post that a cap of say 2 files per month vs a cap of 3 files every what 3/4 months would be better XD (Again just throwing random examples out there)

[Wayward Vagabond]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

Commentary on files isn't required judges just do it to be nice

[iironiic]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

The only thing I would say with this is that it might be hard for some judges to have all that one on one time with a simauthor or multiple depending. Maybe it can be more of a quicknote thing and then if someone really needs something clarified they can speak with the judge. Idk.

That is true. However, if they cannot consistently commit any time to go into details with a stepartist who is interested in knowing why they received such rating, then why would they be judges in the first place? (Honestly, this was the main reason why I stepped down from being a judge haha) Granted, everyone is busy and the meeting session with the judges doesn't necessarily have to be all in one sitting. It can be branched out in multiple small sessions like ten-fifteen minutes per day or something.

The idea of using quick notes is good for the judge's first time judging the file. It will at least start the stepartist off with something to work on.

[T-Force]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submissions CLOSED)

Apparently I'm the only one (or one of the few) who agrees with Middie that subs for extra files should be open..
Granted, judges can spit out charts faster than others, but what about those of us who have had files sitting for months waiting for batches to open? Call me ignorant, but what's so hard about having an open call (say like one file per person) for songs of X difficulty and having like 3-4 of the judges take a peek and give a rating on them?
That's just my opinion, take from it what you will.