Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

[A2_Sauce]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Then talk to aperson who also seems to think mathematics is a worthwhile pursuance. The rest of us are fine with algebra and geometry.

I cannot think of a single occupation in the world OTHER THAN A MATH PROFESSOR where knowing formulas by heart and being able to do calculations without the use of a calculator is necessary. If you think otherwise, let me know.

software engineer, actuary, computer systems analyst, computer programmer, mathematician, statistician, physician, research scientist, cryptologist, inventory strategist, staff systems air traffic control analyst, ecologist, geodesist, photogrammetrist, civil engineer, and geomatics engineer.

[Squeek]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

And all of these jobs require you to be away from the Internet and a calculator so you cannot look up formulas, nor can you use the calculator to solve them for you, right?

That's what my post said.

[A2_Sauce]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

People memorize equations for the same reasons people memorize the abc's... it's USEFUL and also SAVES a LOAT OF TIME. If you had to punch simple multiplicaiton problems into your calc while solving pre-algebra, that's a waste of time... when doing advanced math, you need to memorize equations so you don't have to constantly look them up.

[warhammerdude20]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

i ask you all this: divide red by 3

cant do it? why? cause its not a number, nither is infinity

[Squeek]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

People memorize equations for the same reasons people memorize the abc's... it's USEFUL and also SAVES a LOAT OF TIME. If you had to punch simple multiplicaiton problems into your calc while solving pre-algebra, that's a waste of time... when doing advanced math, you need to memorize equations so you don't have to constantly look them up.

Tell me if you've gotten to Calculus or beyond yet.

The list of formulas to memorize for derivatives is over 100. Just for derivatives. There are 100 more for integrals. There are probably hundreds more for other things.

Do you honestly see this as necessary? Do you honestly think you can rely on this knowledge if you're in an emergency situation? What if you confuse 1/x with x/1? What if you confuse 2x with x^2? What about cotangent with cosecant?

Professors seem to think you NEED TO KNOW these things, and you're telling me those professions NEED TO KNOW these things, so this is not an unrealistic number of formulas AT ALL.

OH NOT TO MENTION all the rules for finding them. Quotient Rule, Chain Rule, Product Rule, Power Rule. DEFINITELY NOT HARD TO CONFUSE THESE HAHAHAHA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_derivatives

Get memorizing. If you can't tell me what the derivative of 5x^9arccot(6x) +10x^2csc(3) is within five minutes, the world could end. No calculators, please.

Oh and don't confuse any of those with these.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_integrals

[Shashakiro]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

I don't think the point of mathematics is memorizing, but learning HOW to use the equations properly. You can't easily look stuff up that tells you which equation to use in any given situation.

Anyway, this whole "what's the point of math" thing is for another topic...seeing as it doesn't really have much to do with infinity.

[Squeek]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Shash, with all due respect, take Calculus in college and then tell me it's not all memorization. Thanks.

There's a reason I've seen about twenty webcomics already with the standard "calculus professor" jokes about impossible equations that you have to do based on memorization and pencil-and-paper skills.

And I thought we already solved this problem? It's pretty obvious to me at least, since mathematicians like making things up to annoy non-mathematicians. Like that whole 0.999....=1 argument. Please.

[itmorr]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Tons of memorization.

[itmorr]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Tell me if you've gotten to Calculus or beyond yet.

The list of formulas to memorize for derivatives is over 100. Just for derivatives. There are 100 more for integrals. There are probably hundreds more for other things.

Do you honestly see this as necessary? Do you honestly think you can rely on this knowledge if you're in an emergency situation? What if you confuse 1/x with x/1? What if you confuse 2x with x^2? What about cotangent with cosecant?

Professors seem to think you NEED TO KNOW these things, and you're telling me those professions NEED TO KNOW these things, so this is not an unrealistic number of formulas AT ALL.

OH NOT TO MENTION all the rules for finding them. Quotient Rule, Chain Rule, Product Rule, Power Rule. DEFINITELY NOT HARD TO CONFUSE THESE HAHAHAHA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_derivatives

Get memorizing. If you can't tell me what the derivative of 5x^9arccot(6x) +10x^2csc(3) is within five minutes, the world could end. No calculators, please.

Oh and don't confuse any of those with these.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_integrals

Sorry in advance for the double post. Memorizing them all is a pain in the butt, but I think it comes in handy in the long run. A lot of them get super easy though -- you mentioned Quotient Rule, Chain Rule, Product Rule, Power Rule, which aren't hard to remember at all. The ones that trip most people up are probably all the trig identities. In addition to all the memorization, you have to deal with *applying* the derivatives and integrals to things like graphing certain functions. I think it's painful to start, but after learning to walk, running probably becomes a hell of a lot easier.

Also, when it does become super easy, I'm sure it helps to be able to apply the concepts learned in calc to certain jobs and stuff (Besides being a mathematician).

[JKPolk]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

You take arithmetic, then algebra, then geometry. That's all you'll ever, EVER need.

Except for Vector Calculus and partial derivatives, you're right. Oh and integration and derivation.

I need them... I need them all

[Reach]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Why is inf-inf undefinied?

inf = inf
inf - inf = 0

What the hell. I already showed why it is undefined. And so did someone else I think.



As for the is calculus a big waste of time thing, well, it depends on what field you're going into. If you're going into physics you're going to need it because you're going to have to learn more math that is much harder than calculus, but still involves calculus. You're not going to be able to avoid integration, series or derivation in physics. You're going to need tensor calculus to use Einsteins General Relativity and quantum field theory isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world either (actually, by the looks of it both would make you bunch cry like little girls XD). And considering advancements in quantum mechanics and application of the mathematics involved is causing the big boom in computer advancements, I wouldn't call it useless in the least.

People have this really naive notion that calculus is some big end all be all mathematics that is useless. They're wrong...calculus is more like learning to add and subtract and multiply and divide again. Really, that's what calculus is...knowing how to add and subtract in itself, is useless until you apply it to something else. Calculus is the exact same way.




As for math in school, yea, it's stupid and doesn't prove anything. The fact you can't use a calculator is in fact a giant f'ing joke. They're not really proving anything by doing that, other than wasting lots of your time. All of those mathematicians in the field clearly never use calculuators to do any of their work...oh no. Yea right. More like they have access to supercomputers to do absolutely massive calculations for them.

School in general is like that though. It's not really about learning. They don't care about what you actually 'know', they tend to care about what you're able to regurgitate onto a piece of paper from what they've defined as things you should be able to do.

I got 100 on my university calculus exam, but I studied for it and did practice problems I knew would be on the test. And then viola, they threw all kinds of similar questions to ones I had practiced on the exam and I could solve them really easily.

That proved a lot, didn't it?

[DDRcrazy5]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

∞∞∞∞∞∞∞ i bet you can't do that!

[Shashakiro]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Shash, with all due respect, take Calculus in college and then tell me it's not all memorization. Thanks.

Took BC in high school, wasn't really all memorization, or even mostly memorization...at least, the harder problems took a lot more than just memorization.

Then again, we only had a few no-calculator tests, and those were mostly towards the beginning when we were learning stuff like basic power rule/chain rule, which you should be able to do in seconds anyway.

I suppose it just depends on the teacher/professor. I had a very good teacher =)

[Squeek]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Shash, with all due respect, take Calculus in college

There's a big difference.

Put it this way. Whereas Reach was able to pass only by knowing similar problems beforehand, I failed because I knew all of the material but managed to get confused or messed up on trigonometric derivatives and integrals.

Long story short: I know Calculus and failed Calculus. Three times.

[A2_Sauce]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Tell me if you've gotten to Calculus or beyond yet.

The list of formulas to memorize for derivatives is over 100. Just for derivatives. There are 100 more for integrals. There are probably hundreds more for other things.

Do you honestly see this as necessary? Do you honestly think you can rely on this knowledge if you're in an emergency situation? What if you confuse 1/x with x/1? What if you confuse 2x with x^2? What about cotangent with cosecant?

Professors seem to think you NEED TO KNOW these things, and you're telling me those professions NEED TO KNOW these things, so this is not an unrealistic number of formulas AT ALL.

OH NOT TO MENTION all the rules for finding them. Quotient Rule, Chain Rule, Product Rule, Power Rule. DEFINITELY NOT HARD TO CONFUSE THESE HAHAHAHA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_derivatives

Get memorizing. If you can't tell me what the derivative of 5x^9arccot(6x) +10x^2csc(3) is within five minutes, the world could end. No calculators, please.

Oh and don't confuse any of those with these.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_integrals

... i finished calc bc last year, as for deriv's and integrals, you may not need to memorize those, but in many professions, it's useful.