TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

[nijatwo]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

post editing bad.

But yes, The way I'm reading this, if the master thief goes to steal the perception artifact, he wins. the issue is with thieves stealing FROM the master. Then he loses. It's a 1 way deal. "I can steal from you and get a +20 on my roll, but I have 0 anti-pilfer skill, so no bonus there", am I reading that right?

[DiscoBobbyPARANOiA]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

I asked already about artifacts being removed, and no artifacts are ever removed from the game. They're just redistributed.

But uh, just asking, about your plan..? It's not a major flaw or anything, but the artifacts are pretty much going to be moving every single night, whether we try to have control over it or not. If someone with a perception artifact comes out, wouldn't every wolf thief try and steal it to try to get it before the Master Theif does? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the advantage to being a master theif is that you get the artifact you want but only if you're the only one stealing from that person. Once multiple people try and steal from the same person, I think it becomes more luck than just your role.

I think I had something else.. I'll bring it up later if I remember..

If mulitple people try to steal the perception artifact, with the master included, the master will get it, no matter the number of other thieves.

post editing bad.

But yes, The way I'm reading this, if the master thief goes to steal the perception artifact, he wins. the issue is with thieves stealing FROM the master. Then he loses. It's a 1 way deal. "I can steal from you and get a +20 on my roll, but I have 0 anti-pilfer skill, so no bonus there", am I reading that right?

No one will know who the master thief is though, so there's not much to worry about. (it just would have been a plus if he couldn't be stolen from)

[FishFishRevolution]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

The perception artifact seems useless since it's not a 100%. Maybe used as a "well i already think this person is a wolf so i'm going to check since I have this artifact anyway." Unless it's a psychic kind of deal. Also, if you're not a decoder, it's probably not a good idea to use an unknown artifact.

[Wilkin]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

All of the descriptions seem pretty likely, so I think we can safely put off some of the discussion on that. What I think we should focus on for the moment is how to use each of them, especially since the powers they give aren't necessarily gone once that person is killed, or if a thief steals it.

One of the major problems I see so far is how to take a seering (again, this is assuming we're at least partially correct on the powers of the artifacts), since creating "millers" out of the deception artifact makes perfect sense. The problem also arises when it comes to a thief stealing one of them after being seer'd. How awkward would it be if someone was seer'd twice, and came up both green and red?

Although a stretch, I'd like to hear some more ideas on permutations of this.

[Kilgamayan]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

The master thief always gets priority. Period.

Adding a little something extra onto DBP's plan, those with Protection artifacts should prioritize toward people who are announced as human.

[StoicRoivaS]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

Someone correct me if I've missed any questions that have popped up so far, but the answers to the couple I saw as I skimmed just now are as follows:

If someone dies with an artifact, that was not stolen from them, it will automatically move to a random target. Artifacts are not "lost" in this way, although it's possible that they can be "used" and no longer exist. Not to intentionally try to confuse everyone, but it suffices to say that they will generally stay in the game.

Secondly, the Master Thief's power is only applicable when stealing from someone who is also being stolen from by a normal thief. In this case, the master thief is always successful, regardless of the number or alignment of the other thieves. Otherwise, the Master Thief is treated like a normal thief. He can be stolen from and he can "lose" his artifacts over the course of the night.

Thirdly, yes it is possible to have more than one artifact over the course of a night.

Lastly, If anyone is still confused, you can use an artifact even if you're not a decipherer, and you may not even need to "use" it to begin with. Some of their powers could be called "passive" in a way. Your PM will let you know whether or not it needs to be "used". Otherwise, the power is automatically used/applied/etc.

Let me know if there is anything else that should be clarified.

Edit: Also as a fair heads-up. Do not attempt to use information contained within the PMs to confirm humanity. Some of the PMs are identical copies, some of them contain blocks of text that are in others, and some of them and hand altered from the original to fit a person's situation. I try to make the PMs interesting for your sake. Do not abuse this.

Edit 2: Also note that Iggy's pasting of my "oder of operations" if you will is the first version. The revised version (the one I'll be using) is as follows:

Game Start
Roles PMed/Artifacts distributed (in PM)
N1 actions (including artifact recipients & thieves)
N1 actions (artifacts stolen, artifacts lost)
Resolution as next day starts (PMs where needed)
First lynch
N2 actions (including artifact holders & thieves)
N2 actions (artifacts stolen, artifacts lost)
Repeat...

Meaning, the people with artifacts will use them, their effect may or may not be noticed, and then they will be stolen/lost. Day starts, someone is lynched, night starts, then the people who now have the artifacts use them. Resolution happens and then another round of stealing/losing them happens. Hopefully that's clear. Enjoy.

[roundbox]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

Adding a little something extra onto DBP's plan, those with Protection artifacts should prioritize toward people who are announced as human.

A good point that I wanted to lead up to but didn't know how to word it. I think your plan will be the best one to fit this... awry situation.

[talisman]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

Aight so DBP's plan seems decent enough. Faking would be possible but ballsy given that the wolves would be gambling that the master thief wouldn't be able to call them on it (Of course, if a wolf was dealt a perception artifact at the start, the whole thing wouldn't work either). Only hole I see is if the master thief can't unload the perception artifact (can artifacts be given away?), ie that the 50% chance that it switches to someone else doesn't play out. Then things would sort of hiccup.

Now back to trying to AAA kilga's pos file =/

[Kilgamayan]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

wait my what now

[talisman]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

see tournament thread.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

The plan is very flawed in that after one day, you lose everything you gained.

In practical purposes:

1)Perception(a) artifact holder comes out with a name of red or green. (Both protection artifacts have to now protect these guys from wolfings)

2)Day leads to night and master thief steals from (a).

At this point it seems like a fairly solid plan because two knowns are out there, not 100% but fairly good. Then you have two people guarded MAYBE by anyone holding a protection artifact. If wolves get one though someone won't be guarded

The rest of this plan just kills humans:

3)Day begins and perception(b) artifact comes out? Course (b) may be the same person from yesterday or not. Either way there is a potential for two names to come out while already having two other names out there. So not only will info be given to wolves but anyone who was seen by the artifacts at this point could pretty much die. I mean the protection artifacts can only cast doubt on so many people. (I'm willing to bet that the wolves wouldn't attack a list of 4 names if they knew they didn't have a protection artifact.)

Then the plan keeps going through people like flies, if a pick is wrong then it's curtains for him, and if he's a wolf then we benefit.

Course perception artifacts could be deemed more reliable if people agree that deception artifacts are not useful to humans. (I doubt this may be the case, it may make humans into blues as a human role and turns humans into reds for red roles.) If we know that there's a smaller chance of seer actions being faked then maybe itll be easier to act on them.

In short: disco's plan is interesting but because roles constantly change, nothing concrete can be set up for continuing purposes according to this plan.

Every day is like a new challenge of figuring out who is who, so sacrifacing will mean little because the next day will be different, if any plan is enacted it should try to rely on something that is constant.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

Control of artifacts could be more easily monitored if we had two of our thieves stealing from each other so there's a smaller chance of losing them during the night. Only way they would be lost is if the wolf thief and human thief stole from another human thief and they lost the random drawing.

Another thing to think about: The way the actions are worded, it seemed that even if you use the artifact, if it gets stolen/lost, then you don't get to see the result anyways and it goes to the person who stole it.

I'm just babbling now, it's way too late. I will think this over more tomorrow.

[Stella!]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

Control of artifacts could be more easily monitored if we had two of our thieves stealing from each other so there's a smaller chance of losing them during the night. Only way they would be lost is if the wolf thief and human thief stole from another human thief and they lost the random drawing.

Another thing to think about: The way the actions are worded, it seemed that even if you use the artifact, if it gets stolen/lost, then you don't get to see the result anyways and it goes to the person who stole it.

I'm just babbling now, it's way too late. I will think this over more tomorrow.

Of course, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty positive I read somewhere that you get your results even if it gets stolen.. that's why you PM the host about your artifact before they're all (possibly) redistributed.

Again, it's not impossible for me to be wrong, but it just seems like you should be able to use your artifact before it gets stolen.

I never thought about two theives stealing from each other so we have guaranteed artifacts, it's a good idea for after Night 1.

There are a few flaws, but it seems this whole system sort of has its checks and balances so that everything's just about equally as risky. But it could get easier as we find more humans along the way.

Or maybe it'd be best to just try and keep to the same few humans that come out confirmed in the beginning? I think that's what you sort of said anyway in the other post. I can't remember so well already. And I need to go to school.

I hope this works..

[FoJaR]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

everyone loses their artifact every night, because if you arent stolen from, it's randomly redistributed.

so the action takes place before that, regardless of whether or not you're stolen from.

[FishFishRevolution]

Re: TWG XLII: Raiders of the Temple of the Last Crusade

everyone loses their artifact every night, because if you arent stolen from, it's randomly redistributed.

so the action takes place before that, regardless of whether or not you're stolen from.

There's a 50% you'll lose your artifact, it's not for sure.