God.

[marxandlennon]

Re: God.

I'm simply very skeptical of religion because it cannot co-exist with current religion. Take the muslim faith, they want everyone to be muslim, IE destroy the infidels or christians or whatever it is. Did he want it to occur violently like they do it? Simply doesn't stand true to the nature. I never heard of Allah blessing AK-47's, have you?

It depends. To be honest, a lot of the Koran simply isn't....good. it's misogynistic, violent, and totalitarian. But then, so is a lot of the Bible and the Torah...

[devonin]

Re: God.

Ironically, the koran has many interesting literary tidbits in it, for example: the words male and female, and the words he and she appear an identical number of times in the original text, to reflect how everyone is equal in the eyes of God.

Funny how the twisting of church texts to create church doctrine gives so many people an ill view of how the original stated intent was meant to be carried out.

Remember: Church != Faith, and Dogma != Doctrine

[hayatewillown]

Re: God.

Wonderful.

[marxandlennon]

Re: God.

Ironically, the koran has many interesting literary tidbits in it, for example: the words male and female, and the words he and she appear an identical number of times in the original text, to reflect how everyone is equal in the eyes of God.

Funny how the twisting of church texts to create church doctrine gives so many people an ill view of how the original stated intent was meant to be carried out.

Remember: Church != Faith, and Dogma != Doctrine

Yeah, that's why the Koran includes such delightfully women's lib-ish statements as:
And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them.
2:228

When ye rise up for prayer, wash you faces, and your hands up to the elbows, and lightly rub your heads and (wash) your feet up to the ankles. And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it.
5:6

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness.
24:31

Not to say the bible is any better...

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.
And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.
But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.
Leviticus 12:1-5

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Matthew 5:32

(it's not just the church and the dogma, my friend.)

[devonin]

Re: God.

I'm assuming that before you claim that you are displaying the unadorned and original texts of these documents, you explain the english quotes from the koran as the result of your own exhaustive translation work? I'm no muslim scholar, but my information comes from someone who is, someone who is happy to speak at length about his anger and disgust at how what he considers to be the most beautiful piece of writing in existance has been deliberately misinterpreted and cast to support what he certainly seems to have felt were corruptions of the original purpose.

(it's not just the church and the dogma, my friend.)

As for Christianity specifically, there is ample evidence that at the very beginning of the faith existing, women had a very important, integral and -equal- role in the running of the burgeoning church. It wasn't until several years had passed, and it looked as though the second coming might not actually be within the lifetimes of Jesus' contemporaries that the old patriarchal methods started to reassert themselves.

So um...yes, it is -precisely- church and dogma.

[Cavernio]

Re: God.

OP: God.

Post 181: Hitler.

[Kilroy_x]

Re: God.

[marxandlennon]

Re: God.

I'm assuming that before you claim that you are displaying the unadorned and original texts of these documents, you explain the english quotes from the koran as the result of your own exhaustive translation work? I'm no muslim scholar, but my information comes from someone who is, someone who is happy to speak at length about his anger and disgust at how what he considers to be the most beautiful piece of writing in existance has been deliberately misinterpreted and cast to support what he certainly seems to have felt were corruptions of the original purpose.


As for Christianity specifically, there is ample evidence that at the very beginning of the faith existing, women had a very important, integral and -equal- role in the running of the burgeoning church. It wasn't until several years had passed, and it looked as though the second coming might not actually be within the lifetimes of Jesus' contemporaries that the old patriarchal methods started to reassert themselves.

So um...yes, it is -precisely- church and dogma.

First of all, you're right, I can't translate Arabic, however, that version of the Koran is the one translated by M. H. Shakir, available from the University of Michigan. Happy?

Secondly, I'm not saying that the early views of the writers of the Koran and the Bible weren't distorted over time. Of course they were. I'm merely pointing out that the basis for the church and the dogma came from the faith and the doctrine. I also ask you to recognize the reality of the situation, which is that, currently, the major religions of the world aren't very friendly towards women, Islam especially. This situation has changed slowly over time, but religion is still very much patriarchal in nature.

[devonin]

Re: God.

When a faith is corrupted by a church, that is not a failing the the faith, it is a failing of the church, and you ought not to condemn the faith because of it. That's all I'm saying.

[marxandlennon]

Re: God.

When a faith is corrupted by a church, that is not a failing the the faith, it is a failing of the church, and you ought not to condemn the faith because of it. That's all I'm saying.

While there's certainly been no shortage of failings on the part of organized faith, there are certain aspects of religions themselves that have been morally repulsive from the very beginning, and this is not something these religions should get a free pass for.

[devonin]

Re: God.

organized faith

You mean church? In that church is what you call organized faith.

[marxandlennon]

Re: God.

You mean church? In that church is what you call organized faith.

yeah.

[Cavernio]

Re: God.

I'm stepping into this without reading anything more that's been on this page, but I certainly find the most freaky religious people to be the ones who simply call themselves 'Christians', who follow no denominations, and who purposefully shun dogma since one of Jesus' purposes was to denounce it (or so is claimed.) I've little experience with other religions. They're the people who appear to have made the Christian Party, or whatever it's called, a political party set on running Canada through God's word.
Please please please though, don't assume I think poorly of you just because you're part of this group of people. I think I claimed this same thing once to a co-worker who I liked (err, not 'liked' liked, just thought was a good person, nothing distasteful, etc), who I then found out had made a decent life for herself largely from deciding to be a born again Christian. I felt like a jerk.

[trillobyite]

Re: God.

OK. That's friggin hilarious. I laughed my butt off for like, 2 minutes. Sorry for being off-topic.

[ljw5021]

Re: God.

The following below is NOT written by me. It is written by my cousin:

I've been doing some thinking and I believe I have finally figured out the huge mystery without using resources such as the Bible. There is in fact a God, and doesn't take intellect to figure that out just common sense. You may also look to scientific proof that proves he exist. Einstein clearly stated that the universe had 3 very real and important factors; Space, Time, and Matter. All three make up our universe. So let's take a closer look at Time. Time has been around since the birth of our universe and is the most important factor of our lives and existence. God created the universe and since the universe requires time as a factor it clearly means that God created Time when he created our universe. So that answers the big question of "well how was God created or has he been around forever?" God was never created and has been around longer that our mind can comprehend, since there was no Time before the universe, he never had an origin, he was always here as a celestial body with infinite wisdom and power. So that answers our question of his existence. So let's move on to "which God is he?" Well many religions have many gods but only a few such as Christianity, Judaism, and Islamic have the "one God." Now let's take this idea of the books of the two religions, there is "The Bible" for Christians there is the "Qur'an" for Muslims, and there is the "Torah" for the Jewish. They all refer to there being the "one God," Christianity refers our savior as Jesus Christ, the Muslims believe it's the prophet Muhammad, and to the Jews their "Messiah" has yet to arrive. This choice here is for you to make and your's to make alone. Also for those still having trouble with believing if God thinking, "Well it still doesn't make sense." Think of it like this, "we are all little birds in a big cage and the cage represents our mind. God will play as the bird keeper, and thus since we are birds in a cage "our mind" we can only travel so far, however God "the bird keeper" can open the cage "our mind" and set us free. I hope this has helped you out perhaps find a new way in life. Thanks for your time, and God Bless.

The thing is, if you comprehend and believe the concepts behind string theory and higher dimensions, you would know that a God figure was at no time required for the apparent start of our universe.