God.

[purebloodtexan]

Re: God.

Saying the word "God" in CT is like whacking a hornet's nest: It's not very logical and stirs things up.

[sjoecool1991]

Re: God.

Saying the word "God" in CT is like whacking a hornet's nest: It's not very logical and stirs things up.

Saying the word God on any forum is gonna do that.
I think arguments about the existence of God are stupid, mainly because no dumb argument is gonna sway anyone's beliefs.
No matter what anyone says, I will not doubt the existence of God.
I am a Christian, and I know that these arguments will go no where, and it even says in the bible that stupid arguments will go no where.
Hence that verse I posted.

[jewpinthethird]

Re: God.

I guess your cousin has never really read the Bible.

Actually, the God of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims is the same. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all use the Torah in their canon.

[devonin]

Re: God.

Also, Non faith based evidence? Like what? There is no 'evidence' for God.

They are happy to provide you with evidence of various scientific phenomena and then suggest to you that it is the simpler, more elegant, and thus according to several logical theories, more likely that such things are the result of intelligent design rather than random chance.

[hayatewillown]

Re: God.

No. My cousin read all of the bible.

[jewpinthethird]

Re: God.

No. My cousin read all of the bible.

That's great...because we care. Really. We do. Tell us more about your cousin. What color is his/her hair? What school does s/he go to? How many times has your cousin been to Disneyland? Really...please, tell us all about your cousin...since you find it necessary to bring him/her up in this thread.

[edubardus]

Re: God.

Saying the word God on any forum is gonna do that.
I think arguments about the existence of God are stupid, mainly because no dumb argument is gonna sway anyone's beliefs.
No matter what anyone says, I will not doubt the existence of God.
I am a Christian, and I know that these arguments will go no where, and it even says in the bible that stupid arguments will go no where.
Hence that verse I posted.

so you 'logically' endorse a countermeasure for logical reasoning? gr8

[devonin]

Re: God.

No matter what anyone says, I will not doubt the existence of God.

Then why are you in Critical Thinking? People who speak in absolutes and refuse to consider the possibilty that given sufficient evidence, their belief could turn out to be false have no real business taking part in otherwise serious and legitimate discussion.

[banditcom]

Re: God.

My head hurts from all the use of the word "theory" and equating the layman's term to the scientific term. :S

They are happy to provide you with evidence of various scientific phenomena and then suggest to you that it is the simpler, more elegant, and thus according to several logical theories, more likely that such things are the result of intelligent design rather than random chance.

IDEAS* not theories. FFS. And Intelligent Design is an idea, not a theory. Also what says random chance? Not much has been done by random chance, and it's definitely not the basis for many real theories.

Except that God and those working through God also have various works attributed to them as well, whereas the elephant does not. Also, if you talk to even a passable Christian Apologist, they will present all -kinds- of perfectly non-faith based evidence to argue for the existance of God, whereas I'd be curious to see someone try to defend the existance of the elephant in any kind of reasonable way.

All the good stuff religion has done for us humans is far less than what it has done negatively. And all the morals, charities, inspiration, etc. are found elsewhere and without religion. Morals from social and psychological aspects of humans. Charties from organizations. Inspiration through love, friends, music, or almost anything... Really, everything that religion has given is just an extra thing. What it's taken is a lot... A lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of lives, a lot of suffering. You can have people get together for other reasons to do stuff for the community, and without the need of an expensive church.. etc... I could go on and on. Ya and it's great like figures such as Mother Theresa promoted suffering and took loads of money for .. what use? Yeah.... Just great.

I'll take the elephant please.

[devonin]

Re: God.

IDEAS* not theories. FFS. And Intelligent Design is an idea, not a theory. Also what says random chance? Not much has been done by random chance, and it's definitely not the basis for many real theories.

I didn't say Intelligent Design was at theory, I said that there are 'several logical theories' that hold, for example, that the more elegant, or the more simple solutions are more likely to be the correct ones. When I say "logical theories" I am speaking philosphically not scientifically, and in that particular arena do have more than a vague idea what I'm talking about.

All the good stuff religion has done for us humans is far less than what it has done negatively. And all the morals, charities, inspiration, etc. are found elsewhere and without religion. Morals from social and psychological aspects of humans. Charties from organizations. Inspiration through love, friends, music, or almost anything... Really, everything that religion has given is just an extra thing. What it's taken is a lot... A lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of lives, a lot of suffering. You can have people get together for other reasons to do stuff for the community, and without the need of an expensive church.. etc... I could go on and on.

And here, fresh on the heels of your criticism of people using "theory" and "idea" as though they are interchangable, you use "religion" and "church" as though they are interchangable. They aren't. Religion and faith exist outside the bounds of the church, generally more so than they do inside the church, and to equate them as being necessarily the same is foolhardy at best.

Ya and it's great like figures such as Mother Theresa promoted suffering and took loads of money for .. what use? Yeah.... Just great.

Mother Teresa promoted suffering? And please explain how vows of poverty are somehow equivalent to having "took loads of money"? if you're referring to donations to her order, the "what use" the money was put to is, let's see here:

Missionaries care for those who include refugees, ex-prostitutes, the mentally ill, sick children, abandoned children, lepers, AIDS victims, the aged, and convalescent. They have schools run by volunteers to educate street children, they run soup kitchens, as well as many other services as per the communities needs. They have 19 homes in Kolkata alone which include homes for women, orphaned children, the dying, an AIDS hospice, a school for street children, and a leper colony. These services are provided to people regardless of their religion.

yeah, that sure sounds like a fat load of nothing, we should cut all funding to that group and shut it down, greedy beggars.

[Grulps]

Re: God.

Actually, the God of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims is the same. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all use the Torah in their canon.

You missed my point. Haven't you ever noticed that the Bible refers to there being many gods?

[Killer90_angel_Cat]

Re: God.

true.... if there is a TRUE God then there must be more than one.... who knows who made the bible.... nobody was around the time it was made so why argue?

[banditcom]

Re: God.

I didn't say Intelligent Design was at theory, I said that there are 'several logical theories' that hold, for example, that the more elegant, or the more simple solutions are more likely to be the correct ones. When I say "logical theories" I am speaking philosphically not scientifically, and in that particular arena do have more than a vague idea what I'm talking about.

You act like since you magically left out the word theory after Intelligent Design makes it not referred to as that. It still is. And define your use of the word theory from now on when you use it, because there are countless morons who misuse the word theory.

Yeah, the more simple solutions are often to be the correct ones. Occam's Razor. "God did it" is not a simple solution.

And here, fresh on the heels of your criticism of people using "theory" and "idea" as though they are interchangable, you use "religion" and "church" as though they are interchangable. They aren't. Religion and faith exist outside the bounds of the church, generally more so than they do inside the church, and to equate them as being necessarily the same is foolhardy at best.

I wasn't not using them interchangeably. Church needs religion. Religion to church... Get it? Without religion, there is no church. You said "Except that God and those working through God also have various works attributed to them as well...", which is a load of bull****. Those "works" can and are done through numerous other means, without all the money needed for useless buildings like churches. And these things are being done by people who actually know what they are doing.

Mother Teresa promoted suffering? And please explain how vows of poverty are somehow equivalent to having "took loads of money"? if you're referring to donations to her order, the "what use" the money was put to is, let's see here:

yeah, that sure sounds like a fat load of nothing, we should cut all funding to that group and shut it down, greedy beggars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q1m-8npkJ4

"Missionaries care for those who include refugees, ex-prostitutes, the mentally ill, sick children, abandoned children, lepers, AIDS victims, the aged, and convalescent. They have schools run by volunteers to educate street children, they run soup kitchens, as well as many other services as per the communities needs. They have 19 homes in Kolkata alone which include homes for women, orphaned children, the dying, an AIDS hospice, a school for street children, and a leper colony. These services are provided to people regardless of their religion."

Again, without religion, all the positives here would exist and even moreso. Without all the money wasted, all the uneducated people running these things, etc... You can't argue for something that is supposedly positive when the negatives greatly outweigh the positives. Not just her, but all of religion. Especially when there are countless alternatives for all aspects of religion. It's like having a psychic heal your cancer lol.. Just doesn't work, and they don't know what they are doing.


Every aspect of life would be better if religion didn't exist.

[Reach]

Re: God.

They are happy to provide you with evidence of various scientific phenomena and then suggest to you that it is the simpler, more elegant, and thus according to several logical theories, more likely that such things are the result of intelligent design rather than random chance

Sure, they'll tell you this. But evolution doesn't have anything to do with random chance, and if these logical principles are interpreted correctly, design by an omniscient God is far less likely than selection by natural processes (i.e. evolution)...something we already have mountains of evidence for.

[MilfeulleSakuraba]

Re: God.

Sure, they'll tell you this. But evolution doesn't have anything to do with random chance, and if these logical principles are interpreted correctly, design by an omniscient God is far less likely than selection by natural processes (i.e. evolution)...something we already have mountains of evidence for.

Except the religious don't inherently denounce evolution.

If you're going to try to counter his statement, you should pick something the religious don't agree with.