President Bush

[A2_Sauce]

Re: President Bush

I think George W. Bush has had the toughest term to "presidentiate" on, but c'mon, stop doing a piss poor job.

[devonin]

Re: President Bush

Anyone who thinks that this presidential term was the "most difficult" has a very low opinion of the great war, the second world war, and the cuban missle crisis, if nothing else.

Edit: Yeesh, what a disappointing 500th post

[8Shade8]

Re: President Bush

I don't laugh at these "accidents". In fact I fear the day that I shoot an innocent. You must understand that I am in no way ignorant of the islamic beliefs. I am trained on insurgents and terrorist ways day and night. I simply relayed to you information (that I am in no postion to give to you) about how propaganda, and how it is used to recruit innocents into terrorist organizations.

I am tired, and have to go to sleep. I will talk more on this tomorrow.

[devonin]

Re: President Bush

Um...you are trained "in" insurgents and terrorist ways day and night...good for you. if you think those things have the -least- bit to do with muslim religious beliefs, then you are propagandized so completely that there's not even much of a reason to try and tell you otherwise.

I mean is "People who use islamic religious thought as an excuse to murder people are NO DIFFERENT than the KKK or any other irrational hate group" such a difficult concept to communicate to people?

[8Shade8]

Re: President Bush

Um...you are trained "in" insurgents and terrorist ways day and night...good for you. if you think those things have the -least- bit to do with muslim religious beliefs, then you are propagandized so completely that there's not even much of a reason to try and tell you otherwise.

I mean is "People who use islamic religious thought as an excuse to murder people are NO DIFFERENT than the KKK or any other irrational hate group" such a difficult concept to communicate to people?

Redundant and hypocritical. I am assuming that you watch WAY to much of the news (which by the way is propaganda in itself) because you ignorance level is practically killing me.

Let me break it down without the "critical thinking" for you. I won't make ANY insinuations. THE INSURGENTS AND TERRORISTS MANIPULATE THE MUSLIM RELIGION TO GET INNOCENT PEOPLE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT FOR THEM!!! WOW, new concept huh? If you read my post I IN NO WAY defended the KKK or any other extremeist group. I STATED QUITE CLEARLY THAT WHAT THE TERRORIST DO WERE WRONG, AND YET YOU TRY TO CONTRADICT ME, QUOTE WHAT I SAID, SAY THAT YOU BELIEVE IT, AND THEN.................AHHHHHHHHHH. If you can not continue on with where I am going then you are hopeless...

[devonin]

Re: President Bush

These particular terrorists in this particular situation happen to be rabidly fundamental muslims...yes, I understand, I am not a moron. But what you are constantly implying if not outright stating is that "muslims" hate america, that "muslims" are terrorists and that "muslims" are ignorant, jealous people who "hate" that other countries are "free"

I mean...I understand that "orthodox, fundamentalist muslims" is a mouthful to say and type, and it is easier to just give in to the propaganda and lump a small, violent extremist subgroup in with the entire rest of the faith that dispises and reviles their corruption of the doctrine, but that way lies madness, hatred, and incredibly bigoted and ignorant results.

EDIT: Also, the idea that someone could be moved to a shouting, all-caps tirade in the middle of a discussion that he himself started by saying how much he respects everyone else's opinion and right to state it -also- being someone who is in the process of being sent overseas to where these people live makes me more than a little uneasy.

[talisman]

Re: President Bush

Been skimmin', something caught my eye.

Further: Even -If- Iraq and Iran were somehow connected...so? Last I checked, the attacks were blamed on "Al Qaeda" which uh...isn't Iran and certainly isn't Iraq.

So your saying there is no al-Qaeda influence in Iraq? Whens the last time you were there fighting againt infidels?

This almost makes my head explode.

1. Devonin was talking about 9/11, not attacks currently in Iraq.
2. You called the insurgents "infidels"... that's just a tad bigoted.

[jewpinthethird]

Re: President Bush

Yeah, I'm out too. The sheer volume of ignorance, fear-mongering and drawing of conclusions that have -no- bearing whatsoever on the evidence presented to back up those conclusions have made this completely into a chit-chat forum sort of topic. There's virtually no critical thinking going on in here at all.

This is how I see it. You have two sides shouting at each other that the other side is wrong. The argument is so loud and outrageous that no one can here each other over their own voices. Each side is openly praising the information that they receive that confirms their argument while entirely ignoring any information that disagrees with their view.

One could compare it to two people standing on opposite sides of a concrete wall, each trying to destroy it with a small hammer (keep in mind this wall serves absolutely no purpose). No matter how hard either of them hit the wall, the hammer just bounces off. The most each can do is hope to take a nice chunk of rock out of the wall. In the mean time, they are getting all hot and sweaty from whacking away at the wall all day.

In the end, everyone stops caring about the wall...and no one really knows why it was such a big deal.

With that said, chip away. No one cares.

[devonin]

Re: President Bush

This is how I see it. You have two sides shouting at each other that the other side is wrong. The argument is so loud and outrageous that no one can here each other over their own voices. Each side is openly praising the information that they receive that confirms their argument while entirely ignoring any information that disagrees with their view.

One could compare it to two people standing on opposite sides of a concrete wall, each trying to destroy it with a small hammer (keep in mind this wall serves absolutely no purpose). No matter how hard either of them hit the wall, the hammer just bounces off. The most each can do is hope to take a nice chunk of rock out of the wall. In the mean time, they are getting all hot and sweaty from whacking away at the wall all day.

In the end, everyone stops caring about the wall...and no one really knows why it was such a big deal.

With that said, chip away. No one cares.

You know, you're right. I keep getting drawn back in here like anything I say is capable of making a difference, but I really don't think it is.

[flawofhumanity]

Re: President Bush

You know, you're right. I keep getting drawn back in here like anything I say is capable of making a difference, but I really don't think it is.

Not completely true; you in junction with a few others in this thread have at least expanded my view on the current war and even somewhat altered my perception of the war and it's usefulness/how necessary it is/was. By the way, I thanks you and the others for that, so don't think all your time was wasted =P.

Now, there's not a lot about the subject that hasn't been said, but I would like to take a moment to discuss the mentality of the U.S. soldiers going overseas. Now, not to generalize, so I will state that this probably isn't widespread but this is what I've seen/heard from my room mate (who is in the army) and his friends/recruiters that I've met while at the armory, where I have been more than a few times.

I really liked the point you made about the difference between willing to die and willing to kill devonin, because it's true. I hear my room mate proclaim quite a bit that "I'm willing to die for my country," but I've called him out on a few times due to a few occurrences. For one, when he was meeting with his recruiters for the first time, I was with him (as I was his ride and wanted to listen to what they had to say) and they were actually discussing which MOS (or specialty) he could be, and he actually chose the one he chose solely based on the fact that his recruiters and him deduced that he was least likely to have to go overseas/get into actual battle due to this MOS. And this isn't a isolated occurrence, I've heard it from the majority of soldiers/potential soldiers that I've met, including officers.

Another thing that worries me about the army is the training. Now I realize, they aren't trained to be peace keepers or Gandhi or anything, but I think some things have exceeded the limit for propaganda even. For example, my town's army branch's slogan or chant is this:

"HOO AH, I WANNA HURT SOMEBODY, HOO AH, I WANNA KILL SOMEBODY, HOOOOO AAAAAAH."

Now maybe I'm taking too much out of it, but somebody is a pretty vague term, and I'm not quite sure the goal of the army is hurting and killing as many somebodies as possible.

Another thing that bothers me is every soldier pretending to be a cultural anthropologist as far as the middle east is concerned. I've seen way too many people pretend that they know everything about the Muslim religion, yet don't know the difference between a Sunni and a Shiite.

PS. I realize that I don't have any real sources, thus this not holding a lot of weight in the CT, but I wanted to at least throw my experiences out there for discussion at the very least. Also, I am not anti-army, I'm just questioning the mentality that some of our troops are going over there with.

[8Shade8]

Re: President Bush

Not completely true; you in junction with a few others in this thread have at least expanded my view on the current war and even somewhat altered my perception of the war and it's usefulness/how necessary it is/was. By the way, I thanks you and the others for that, so don't think all your time was wasted =P.

Now, there's not a lot about the subject that hasn't been said, but I would like to take a moment to discuss the mentality of the U.S. soldiers going overseas. Now, not to generalize, so I will state that this probably isn't widespread but this is what I've seen/heard from my room mate (who is in the army) and his friends/recruiters that I've met while at the armory, where I have been more than a few times.

I really liked the point you made about the difference between willing to die and willing to kill devonin, because it's true. I hear my room mate proclaim quite a bit that "I'm willing to die for my country," but I've called him out on a few times due to a few occurrences. For one, when he was meeting with his recruiters for the first time, I was with him (as I was his ride and wanted to listen to what they had to say) and they were actually discussing which MOS (or specialty) he could be, and he actually chose the one he chose solely based on the fact that his recruiters and him deduced that he was least likely to have to go overseas/get into actual battle due to this MOS. And this isn't a isolated occurrence, I've heard it from the majority of soldiers/potential soldiers that I've met, including officers.

Another thing that worries me about the army is the training. Now I realize, they aren't trained to be peace keepers or Gandhi or anything, but I think some things have exceeded the limit for propaganda even. For example, my town's army branch's slogan or chant is this:

"HOO AH, I WANNA HURT SOMEBODY, HOO AH, I WANNA KILL SOMEBODY, HOOOOO AAAAAAH."

Now maybe I'm taking too much out of it, but somebody is a pretty vague term, and I'm not quite sure the goal of the army is hurting and killing as many somebodies as possible.

Another thing that bothers me is every soldier pretending to be a cultural anthropologist as far as the middle east is concerned. I've seen way too many people pretend that they know everything about the Muslim religion, yet don't know the difference between a Sunni and a Shiite.

PS. I realize that I don't have any real sources, thus this not holding a lot of weight in the CT, but I wanted to at least throw my experiences out there for discussion at the very least. Also, I am not anti-army, I'm just questioning the mentality that some of our troops are going over there with.

WOW! That is a legitimate concern, and I tell you, just as in the civilian world, there are annoying, smart, stupid, retarded as hell, geniuses etc. in the army.

Let me explain something to you. It is tough being in the army. Depression can take over a person easily. It really sucks being away from your family for long amounts of time. So how do we overcome it? With mottos and cadences. They remind us of who we are or in this instance, to remain motivated no matter what.

Here is how that motto is supposed to go:

Drill Sergeant(or any other leader): SOLDIERS, ARE YOU MOTIVATED?!


Soldiers: MOTIVATED, MOTIVATED, DOWN RIGHT MOTIVATED,
HOO AH, I WANNA HURT SOMEBODY, HOO AH, I WANNA KILL SOMEBODY, HOOOOO AAAAAAH

Lol, now you see what happens when you only see part of the story?

Not to say that 11B (infantry) isn't crazy, BUT they are trained to kill. That's it. Nothing else to it. They go in, find the enemy, take them out, leave.

Now, it is my job to identify the enemy. You see, devonin is so concrete in the head, that he can't read my post fully. He then belittles my job with a good for you, and tells me then that I think all muslims are out to get us. I remember making sections of people in my first post. There are insurgants who twist the muslim faith. They threaten others into following them. Some resist. Some don't have to. Guess why. Because we are there.


"small, violent extremist subgroup in with the entire rest of the faith that dispises and reviles their corruption of the doctrine"

Ok, ignorance level needs to go down before you post again. I respect opinions, but I can not stand uneducated opinions. The extremeist groups are not small. They are huge. I cannot disclose how many members, but know this, these groups run entire countries, so how can they be small?

Ok, I am going to have to stop there, because there are certain things I am not allowed to talk about. Sorry, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.


Edit: I kind of answered your question, but here is the answer straight up. A soldiers mentality is based off his training. I am Intel. I have a different mind set than a "lets kill the enemy" infantry. You see? But the infantry will only kill what the Intel tells them to....it has to be balanced. Now I am NOT saying that infantry are mindless killers, but someone needs to Identify the badguys. The mentality is balanced. There is no "guessing" in the army.

[purebloodtexan]

Re: President Bush

I'm not sure if it varies by Army branch, but I thought it was "Hooah!" rather than a long "Hoooooaaaaah!" sound.

[devonin]

Re: President Bush

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/centurion.htm

So tell me this then 8shade8, if these groups are so gigantic, just how large are they? What percentage of the population of Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and say...Saudi Arabia are 'evil terrorist insurgents' 10%? 20%? 90%? Give us a ballpark here. And short of the Taliban controlling Afghanistan (Which by the way, they claimed to have 12,000 members, a whopping 0.03% of the total population of Afghanistan, yeah you need a whole ton of people to take over a country) I deny that "they" are running "whole countries" when you give no evidence.

That's another thing: This is Critical Thinking, wherein you must support your statements with some kind of evidence, so lets have no more of this nonsense "I make a claim, and then claim that I'm "not allowed" to give any of the necessary evidence" style of discussion.

If you are privy to classified information, even implying to civilians that you know it is almost certainly a breach of military protocol. If you -CANNOT- support what you claim with any kind of evidence, just don't make such claims.

[Grandiagod]

Re: President Bush

I like how this thread hasn't deviated from it's original topic.

[Adamaja456]

Re: President Bush

I dont think it has. Bush invaded Iraq and many of the people in the Thread are talkin about Iraq and terrism and stuff of that sort =]