Suicide

[Jam930]

Death before dishonor...

How does that fit into all of this. I for one believe in this.


We all die eventually... would it be better to end it deliberately in order to try and preserve your dignity or honor?

Do we really need to sit around in rocking chairs for that last dragging and nearly pointless 40 years?


What is life really worth?

[Vamps]

Wow, this thread is still going...i thought it died!
Killing yourself to preserve dignity and honour is different to killing yourself because you're in pain in your last few years of life. The last 40 years could be the most importnant years of your life, you may only live to be 40, or you may live to 100. Either way you can accomplish alot in those 40 years. Death to preserve honour/dignity was something the Japanese Samuri's used to do. Well, all Japanese soldiers were told to honour their family by commiting suicide if caught by the enemy in WWII. Im not real big on the actual facts about all this, but i know it was an old Japanese "tradition" i suppose you could call it.
I dont believe that any family in modern society would rather their son/husband to kill themself, whether Japanese or not, just because they were imprisoned. I can understand someone that has done something dishonourable wishing to commit suicide, but I also think that it's the wrong thing to do. Just like any other reason for commiting suicide, i can understand, at least to some degree, but i still dont think actually KILLING yourself is the right way to go about things, i draw the line at self harm.
Either way, killing yourself because you've just got another 40 years to live and you dont feel like it is most definately not a wise thing to do, and i dont think that killing yourself in aid of honour and dignity is the right way to go around fixing things either.

[lord_carbo]

I'm guessing you guys read The Giver? It shows the horrors of euthanasia, basically the same thing as suicide (and democracy and how much others suffer more than us and a lot of other depressing topics.). If you haven't I can't believe you haven't read that book. It's excellent.

I'd stereotypically estimate most who commit suicide are teenagers. Suicidal teenagers are just plain mentally challenged. They don't like life and where it is going so they want to die? Boo fucking hoo, they should really get over it. Yeah I'm being bitchy and insensitive, but seriously, suicidal teenagers are so damn ignorant. They act like their life will be like that forever, that they will not change, and neither will the people they are around.

Now for some quotes:

Wow, this thread is still going...i thought it died!

Lol pun. I must look stupid and insensative pointing something out like that.

EDIT: You view them as a weakness, as an inferiority? You think they should die, and their bodies fed to others? I remember this dude a while back who that the same thing, the race of Jews were inferior. He actually went out and did something about it, though, instead of posting on a message board, probably cause they didn't have them at the time. He was a fascist who viewed being Jewish as being weak, and thusly he began to summarily execute all of them based on the ideal that because someone was a certain way, they were weak. I don't think I need to tell you who this groovy dude was, but you and him would have a swingin' time hating people you considered inferior if he were alive today.

Definately a stupid thing to say IMO. You were better leaving this out of your post. Your refrence to Hitler is very poor and makes you sound like someone's religion can be comparable to someone's mental state.

Making it illegal just makes the curious scared to do it.

Keep it illegal.

Seconded. Good point brought up.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....gi?u=depressed

Just follow his simple instructions. If you want to commit suicide, then do it. A lot of people who are that depressed let themselves get that depressed. If you are so caught up in your problems that you don't think there is any way out of them, then maybe suicide is the answer for you. Just make sure to talk to friends and family before you do it, because they might be able to help.

Wow this is now my favorite website. This guy is a thinker. Let's get him over here.

[jewpinthethird]

Making it illegal just makes the curious scared to do it.

For some reason, the way this sentence is worded, it just doesn't work. Attempting suicide isnt quite the same thing as, say experimenting with marijuana.

Keeping marijuana illegal keeps those who are curious from trying it...but suicide is like...well, it's suicide, I don't know anyone who is truly curious about killing themselves. How can be you be curious about suicide? "hmm...gee. I wonder what it would be like to be dead...Only one way to find out!"

I mean, if you fail at suicide, then technically it isnt suicide. You could always play it off as "oh, I lost my balance and fell bridge...oh, I was also training for the olympics...that's way this rock is tied to my ankle."

Even if you suck at coming up with excuses for your failed suicide, no one can say otherwise...unless you write a suicide note saying "hey, I'm killing myself right now, ttyl."

I mean, if you are serious about suicide, and you fail, not only did you fail at killing yourself, but now you are in trouble with the law. Making suicide illegal is just a stupid idea.

But, I guess stupid ideas go hand in hand.

[lord_carbo]

But, I guess stupid ideas go hand in hand.

In other words...

If you are stupid enough to think about commiting suicide, who isn't to say you are stupid enough to not commit suicide because it is illegal?

[Sera13]

i think its about time this topic commits suicide.. its been aroun way to long, and its getting no where.

[MalReynolds]

It's actually getting a lot of places. I know I retired from this thread, but I don't think it's time for a lock. There's no more flaming, just discussion.

Mal

[hatakikakashi]

But, I guess stupid ideas go hand in hand.

In other words...

If you are stupid enough to think about commiting suicide, who isn't to say you are stupid enough to not commit suicide because it is illegal?

Look buddy, your not stupid because you think about something. Suicide may be a dumb thing to do, but don't insult people like that. That's just as stupid.

[lord_carbo]

But, I guess stupid ideas go hand in hand.

In other words...

If you are stupid enough to think about commiting suicide, who isn't to say you are stupid enough to not commit suicide because it is illegal?

Look buddy, your not stupid because you think about something. Suicide may be a dumb thing to do, but don't insult people like that. That's just as stupid.

Suicide is a stupid act no matter how you look at it. Someone who is suicidal is probably an ignorant person to start with. They are depressive, but I can't exactly tell you my or anyone elses life is plucking dasies, but suicide is something I and many others are not dumb enough to even think about. Yeah yeah there are people that can classify themselves as geniuses and they commit suicide, but they obviously weren't big on the side of common sense that ending your life over something is not the way to go.

[hatakikakashi]

Just because you get depressed doesn't mean your dumb for thinking. I never said suicide was smart. People sometimes literally cannot help what they are thinking about. If it were so easy to just wish away all the bad thoughts I'm sure that anyone would. I know I would. Just because suicide has crossed my mind doesn't make me an idiot. If you haven't considered it, that doesn't make you superior either. You haven't had to deal with those kinds of feelings apparently and I'm glad you haven't thought of killing yourself, but seriously though you aren't helping anyone. Because you haven't thought about suicide doesn't mean your better than me, or anyone else, it doesn't mean your smarter, it doesn't mean we are stupid. Suicide is a desparate act, it can be very sad, but it isn't allways a stupid thing to do. It could be anywhere from cowardly to a heroic. It just depends on the circumstances. Your being negative and narrow minded.

[Vamps]

I agree with Sera, the "i thought this thread was dead" wasnt meant as a pun, i didnt even think of the fact that it could be a pun. I also agree with hataki, The smartest person i know, my best friend in the world, was once entertaining the thought of commiting suicide, or atleast self harming, I'm not 100% sure which, he isnt the kind of person id ever expect to so much as start to consider even self harm! But this one night he was considering it. He is DEFINATELY not ignorant, he is DEFINATELY not a depressive teenager, usually, he is 18 and yet he has the mental age more of a 21 year old! When u mentioned that you were probably being stereotypical, i would have to say you were DEFINATELY being stereotypical. Not everyone who commits suicide is some teenager who's bored with life, thinks they have such a hard life and its never going to get any better, sometimes these thoughts just pop into peoples head if they have been through an upsetting enough experience. There is no need to make them sound stupid and ignorant, they arent.

[lord_carbo]

Just because you get depressed doesn't mean your dumb for thinking. I never said suicide was smart. People sometimes literally cannot help what they are thinking about.

I know what you mean about controlling what you think about. Not gonna explain it but I'm just gonna say I have no control over my mind. I'd be the scum of the bucket if I said what I'm talking about. but thinking about suicide is one thing. It means you might have a few problems and yu aren't exactly the most cheerful person in the world. Actually attempting it or preparing to is another story.

Because you haven't thought about suicide doesn't mean your better than me, or anyone else, it doesn't mean your smarter, it doesn't mean we are stupid.

No, being suicidal doesn't typically make you stupid; it makes you ignorant. I explained it before using the example of teenagers, but I might as well use it in other situations:

-Financially In-dept: There are many programs that can get you out of debt and others that can actually get you money. I don't know if they are reliable, but I do know they exist and if I were in-debt I certainly at least try them. Think about it... they are pretty much risk free to a person who is ready to commit suicide.
-Relationship: This ain't Romeo and Juliet; suicide isn't the way to go. If you got out of a relationship with someone you love for whatever reason, from death to divorce, there is counciling if you really are depressed and cannot get over it.

And "we?" Damn I really haven't been on this thread for a while. Obviously you have a different perspective on this.

Suicide is a desparate act, it can be very sad, but it isn't allways a stupid thing to do. It could be anywhere from cowardly to a heroic. It just depends on the circumstances.

Suicide is cowardly no matter what. It is the easy way out of life or whatever you got yourself into.

Heroic? I'd like to hear an example.

Your being negative and narrow minded.

Negative? I'm merely sharing my opinion. I'm not in the mood to share my opinion on you, although that doesn't seem to be the same on your behalf. We are discussing suicide and all the thoughts brought up about it, not the people debating here. So I'm negative? I'm going to assume you are making this decision because you do not share my views.

Narrow minded? You could say that. Or you could say the stuff being posted that I have read isn't affecting my opinion on the matter. I'll go with the second one.

[Vamps]

If you had've read a very good post that Jamie made, and then a reply I made, you'd see an example of heroic. Japanese warriors, primarily (i think) in WWII HAD to commit suicide if they were caputered by the enemy. It was thought to be dishonourable to be captured, and they quite often had bombs rigged to them so that they took out surrounding prisoners/enemies. In most cases, im not sure how often, the family would disown their sons, brothers or husbands if they were captured and they didnt commit suicide in the name of the emporer (sp?). This, in the Japanese culture, was seen as heroic. You are being narrow minded, you are only seeing it from one view point, you are not trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes, or even an entirely different culture. These are things you really need to consider if you're going to be able to have a civilised debate about suicide, other people's points of view.

[lord_carbo]

If you had've read a very good post that Jamie made, and then a reply I made, you'd see an example of heroic. Japanese warriors, primarily (i think) in WWII HAD to commit suicide if they were caputered by the enemy. It was thought to be dishonourable to be captured, and they quite often had bombs rigged to them so that they took out surrounding prisoners/enemies. In most cases, im not sure how often, the family would disown their sons, brothers or husbands if they were captured and they didnt commit suicide in the name of the emporer (sp?). This, in the Japanese culture, was seen as heroic. You are being narrow minded, you are only seeing it from one view point, you are not trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes, or even an entirely different culture. These are things you really need to consider if you're going to be able to have a civilised debate about suicide, other people's points of view.

In their point of view it was heroic. In my point of view it is cowardly. Wow, they can't bear the greif that they let down the emporer? So they are just going to kill themrselves? Fall down seven times, stand up eight, my friend.

Okay then, let's say there is really no hope left. You are now a Prisoner of War. Who isn't to say that you will be rescued and whereever you are being held will be liberated? If everyone at the Nazi camps in WWII just commited suicide the Americans would have noone to rescue. Sure it was pretty bad there, but those Jews probably didn't lose all hope.

People commit suicide when they have lost all hope, and I sure have lost all hope that anything you say is going to convince me that suicide can be different in many situations.

I'm just a lot more against suicide than you are. My opinion is a lot more straightfoward. And if that is a crime, let me be arrested.

[Vamps]

I respect the fact that you have an opinion, really i do, but they didnt just commit suiced because they let down the emporer, it was part of their culture, it was what they were trained to do, it was what they grew up knowing to be right. They had been taught for years and years, in some cases since they were old enough to walk, that it was what had to be done. They didnt know any different! And you think suicide bombers are cowardly? They're commiting suicide, but not because they want to die because they've had enough of life, but because they want to kill others around them. Exactly the same concept as the Japanese when they had bombs strapped to them. They not only killed themselves but they killed off a couple of the enemy with them! These people are only doing what they are trained to do, they arent necessarily doing it because they see no hope left in their lives.