Japanese

[omgitznpv]

Re: Japanese

It's always good to learn basic phrases like, for example, "O namae wa nan desu ka?" because it's extremely practical and a good way to learn basic sentence structure. For instance, literally translated, this is more like "Name (topic) what (is it?)" and therefore you get a better sense for how subjects and verbs are arranged.

My point (read edited post) was that if they simply understood just that phrase, they may not know how it works from a grammatical standpoint. Once you mention the "name (topic) what (is it?)," then I'd have to agree that it would be fine to learn the phrase; one would be able to understand the sentence structure.

Oh, and also, tip: avoid using roomaji; it can create lots of confusion (such as distinguishing between "u|nya" or "un|ya" for example).

[EnR]

Re: Japanese

Hmm, now I must learn how to swear in japanese.

TO say at teachers and stuff.

[KlingPosnot]

Re: Japanese

Im taking a Japanese class right now and I gotta say...Nihongo wa tanoshii desu. ^^

[SethSquall]

Re: Japanese

Kanojo wa denwa o shiteimasu
かのじょはでんわをしています

Kare wa hanashi o shiteimasu
かれははなしをしれいます

Lol try and guess what my last lesson was on. How things change for past, present or something in progress isn't all that confusing but I think it's a lot to remember =/

That and -te form.

[Squeek]

Re: Japanese

I always thought it was weird that your teachers or whoever told you to use copula at the end of every sentence.

It's really annoying, actually. Why the hell are you being so polite on an Internet forum? Drop the desu and the shimasu and all that already.

Also this really doesn't help much but at least it boosts your ego. The only thing you can do with hiragana is learn particles and such. Katakana will help you more, but you can't really do anything without Kanji anyway. Problem there is that there are hundreds of characters and millions of combinations for them, so good luck learning them all~

It's not even really necessary to learn much other than how to write, since you can just draw characters into an IME and you'll get a translation. Off the top of my head, I can't even write (on paper) the basic alphabets, yet I could tell what they look like on-screen. I can't speak it or understand spoken word. I can't read it without a dictionary. Yet I'm still proficient enough to know exactly what's going on in a conversation without subtitles.

[Dimitri13]

Re: Japanese

Te form is confusing for me =/

[Edit] And Squeeks, it is absolutely not necessary to learn every single combination. If you know a decent amount of Kanji and what they mean, then you can decipher pretty much most sentences.

[omgitznpv]

Re: Japanese

Problem there is that there are hundreds of characters and millions of combinations for them, so good luck learning them all~

Thousands of characters.

I could tell what they look like on-screen. I can't read it without a dictionary.

What?

I can't understand spoken word. I'm still proficient enough to know exactly what's going on in a conversation without subtitles.

What?

Yea I'm going to learn all of the Kanji as well.

Good luck with that.

[SethSquall]

Re: Japanese

I always thought it was weird that your teachers or whoever told you to use copula at the end of every sentence.

It's really annoying, actually. Why the hell are you being so polite on an Internet forum? Drop the desu and the shimasu and all that already.

Problem there is that there are hundreds of characters and millions of combinations for them, so good luck learning them all~

It's just how you learn isn't it? It's best to learn how to be polite, I think all languages are taught like that. Then when you get to a certain stage you gain a higher understanding of the language you can drop stuff like that.

Yea I'm going to learn all of the Kanji as well. Imagine that. I don't care what you say hehehe.

Oh and I'd say Hiragana is just as/if not more important to learn than Katakana for me. I intend to be able to write fluently in Japanese and there will be a lot more Hiragana than Foreign words for katakana. Maybe to start of with anyway, until I get confident with using Kanji. Plus I know basic Katakana now anyway.

[Squeek]

Re: Japanese

It's just annoying. You learn it, so you learn that it's for politeness, right? It's just not appropriate for a forum setting like this. To me, "desu" puts a "sir" or "madam" at the end of your sentence. Find someone on the forums who does that.

npv: I can read hiragana, katakana, and maybe 50-100 Kanji. I just can't write them on paper. That's what I'm trying to say. I also won't be able to fully translate the sentence without consulting a few sources. Namely, a particle reference, a kanji dictionary, and a verb conjugation guide.

About the speaking comment. I can understand most things in the sentence. When words are spoken, you can't really tell which ones are kanji and which ones aren't. It's a lot easier to understand. But I still don't know a lot of words and the spoken word is far too quick to pick up everything. I can only understand basic situations. And again, while I can understand some spoken word, I cannot speak it.

And yeah in case it weren't obvious I've never had lessons because my high school didn't offer them and I've been way too busy at college to even think about personal electives. I picked up what I know from games and anime.

[nestlekwik]

Re: Japanese

These are more for brushing up on what you know already, but I have found these to be great tools in keeping your hiragana and katakana sharp:

http://www.msu.edu/~lakejess/kanjigame.html - this lets you do "flash card"-type recognition of hiragana, katakana and kanji where the character is shown and you select its romanization (or vice versa). It is browser-based and not too intensive.

http://lrnj.com/ - this is the infamous Slime Forest game. Slime Forest is an RPG you download for the PC where to attack enemies, you have to type in the romanized forms of katakana and hiragana. Fun stuff.

I suppose if you had enough will power to memorize the characters from these tools, they could actually teach you the characters, so if you are willing and can do it, more power to you.

[SethSquall]

Re: Japanese

It's just annoying. You learn it, so you learn that it's for politeness, right? It's just not appropriate for a forum setting like this. To me, "desu" puts a "sir" or "madam" at the end of your sentence. Find someone on the forums who does that.

Politeness is what I'm used to. It's what I'm taught and it's what will be in the Exam. Both writing and listening. So it's best I learn to speak that way first. I understand what you're saying though dude, I don't say please/thank you/sir/madam and stuff on here in English. This is for learning purposes though really. I would much rather learn this way and cancel out any unnecessary politeness when I'm much better at the language. Sorry if it annoys you that much though =/

These are more for brushing up on what you know already, but I have found these to be great tools in keeping your hiragana and katakana sharp:

http://www.msu.edu/~lakejess/kanjigame.html - this lets you do "flash card"-type recognition of hiragana, katakana and kanji where the character is shown and you select its romanization (or vice versa). It is browser-based and not too intensive.

http://lrnj.com/ - this is the infamous Slime Forest game. Slime Forest is an RPG you download for the PC where to attack enemies, you have to type in the romanized forms of katakana and hiragana. Fun stuff.

I suppose if you had enough will power to memorize the characters from these tools, they could actually teach you the characters, so if you are willing and can do it, more power to you.

Thanks man. Oh and rock on with the Flash Cards and the RPG they'll help out loads. Thanks for those too.

[Afrobean]

Re: Japanese

It's just annoying. You learn it, so you learn that it's for politeness, right? It's just not appropriate for a forum setting like this. To me, "desu" puts a "sir" or "madam" at the end of your sentence. Find someone on the forums who does that.

I do that occasionally. Actually, I find formality to be a good idea in a setting such as this. Only the types of posts where I avoid capitalization would I be willing to drop formalities.

And actually, if I recall, typically, short verb forms are usually used around people that are already known and avoided when you've just met.

npv: I can read hiragana, katakana, and maybe 50-100 Kanji. I just can't write them on paper. That's what I'm trying to say. I also won't be able to fully translate the sentence without consulting a few sources. Namely, a particle reference, a kanji dictionary, and a verb conjugation guide.

I'm sure that you can't READ 100 Kanji. I could MAYBE believe that you could UNDERSTAND 100 kanji, but I don't believe that you can READ them. And even then... 100 is a lot... I wouldn't estimate my understanding at any more than ~30~40 TOPS, so I doubt that you'd know THAT MUCH more than me.

About the speaking comment. I can understand most things in the sentence. When words are spoken, you can't really tell which ones are kanji and which ones aren't. It's a lot easier to understand. But I still don't know a lot of words and the spoken word is far too quick to pick up everything. I can only understand basic situations. And again, while I can understand some spoken word, I cannot speak it.

I think you're over estimating your ability a bit. If you could understand it as well as you believe, you'd be able to half-ass your way through speaking it as well, even if it's not 100% correct. Think of what a stereotypical Japanese person who is poor with English sounds to us grammatically; I'm sure you could manage the vice versa of that if you're as perceptive as you think.

And yeah in case it weren't obvious I've never had lessons because my high school didn't offer them and I've been way too busy at college to even think about personal electives. I picked up what I know from games and anime.

Yeah, aural comprehension is a major issue.

[omgitznpv]

Re: Japanese

About the speaking comment. I can understand most things in the sentence. When words are spoken, you can't really tell which ones are kanji and which ones aren't. It's a lot easier to understand. But I still don't know a lot of words and the spoken word is far too quick to pick up everything. I can only understand basic situations. And again, while I can understand some spoken word, I cannot speak it.

I am left confused.

And yeah in case it weren't obvious I've never had lessons because my high school didn't offer them and I've been way too busy at college to even think about personal electives. I picked up what I know from games and anime.

From personal experience, it's faster learning something outside of school (probably because I'm motivated to do it if it's outside of school, haha). I'm simply using guides and books, and I'm getting along perfectly fine.

I suppose if you had enough will power to memorize the characters from these tools, they could actually teach you the characters, so if you are willing and can do it, more power to you.

I have found it much faster to memories the characters by simply making flash cards. I make them into groups of 7 or 8, memorize one individual group, memorize another, put the two groups together (14-16 cards then), and reinforce both, memorize another group, put it together, reinforce all three, until it's all good.

It took me about 50 minutes to memorize Hiragana this way, and it took about 30 for all the additional sounds; it took me an hour to memorize Katakana and about 20 minutes for the sounds.

I think you're over estimating your ability a bit. If you could understand it as well as you believe, you'd be able to half-ass your way through speaking it as well, even if it's not 100% correct. Think of what a stereotypical Japanese person who is poor with English sounds to us grammatically; I'm sure you could manage the vice versa of that if you're as perceptive as you think.

Beyond true. Happens with me with Chinese (I'm not like fluent or anything)- I can understand (aurally) the language very well, and I can get basic ideas across.

Yeah, aural comprehension is a major issue.

Only Western languages for me hehe

*edit*

I think this was one of my biggest posts ever :\

[SethSquall]

Re: Japanese

一二時です

Hehe. I hope that makes sense.

[QuadDamage]

Re: Japanese

NI SHI ZHONGGUOREN MA lol