Atheism/Theism thread

[Dorby]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

So, why do you talk as if it matters? to believe that there is no GOD means there is no meaning. We exist because of an accident. That's all life is, an accident. To feel as if you have to defend your view means you have taken from a view that has meaning.

I am not defending that viewpoint, for I was born because my mother and father had sex, and his sperm traveled into her uterus thus creating an embryo and I was born 9 months later. But, for you to insist that there is a higher power is an insult to my everyday life, in which that is where the defense would come from, because I know that I'm living my one life and that my attributes were either genetically given to me or acquired through my years of living, none of which I give credit to a higher power that has my entire life planned, thus giving me no meaning to even survive because everything has been planned out for me. To me, that seems like such a bleak existence and robs you of what you genuinely possess.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

So, why do you talk as if it matters? to believe that there is no GOD means there is no meaning. We exist because of an accident. That's all life is, an accident. To feel as if you have to defend your view means you have taken from a view that has meaning.

And so what if the universe lacks a God? Nature is as nature is. The universe doesn't "owe" you meaning. It's a scary thought, to some, that we're just chemical-toting meatbags roaming around on a big cluster of rock orbiting a giant ball of superhot gas in a giant galaxy in the middle of fucking nowhere... but that's the way it is, and it doesn't mean you can't make your own meaning.

People tend to want the same things -- to enjoy their days, to love and be loved, to accomplish things, to leave a legacy, to change the world, to live comfortably and enjoy friends/family, yada yada yada. All of these things can be done with an underlying meaning that does not require a God.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

... This doesn't seem like we're talking about the same thing anymore ...

Yes, we absolutely are.

We all have the same evidence as in. You see a fossil layer, and say, this layer means that this species died out, and then the layer above that died later on, and so far and so forth. Christian view looks at that and says that a global flood took place and reformed the face of the earth. Killing most all life except those sheltered on the ark. same evidence (Fossils) different conclusions based on world view.

EDIT: Fuck you are posting faster than I can reply. This view, as you just put it, has been debunked via physical evidence. The whole "global flood" thing / Noah's Ark / etc is nonsense.

[JJTrixX]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

...and that's the circle of life


but going back to what bmah said:

"It's when you try to apply science to religion or religion to science that things don't make sense. That's comparing apples and oranges. So while they both can exist together, unfortunately a lot of people think that they have to be compared (and so logic from one train of thought is applied to the other which results in arguments that obviously will never be satisfiably resolved)."

That's what makes this such an interesting challenge. Remember, an atheist initiated this thread. How bias would it be to only hear the input of other atheists/agnostics? Do I annoy certain impatient atheists because i fail to explain my faith to them with science? What if I told you my faith IS a science? What if I told you my faith is a science in which you do not comprehend because you chose not to? I know God exists. Where's the evidence? The evidence is inside me and all around me. I sense the presence of God with my heart, mind, and soul. It is a sense that is above and beyond logic and reason. People who do not believe in god, do not understand God. They don't know God. I can not explain God to someone who is chosing not to understand God.

The purpose of this thread isn't to prove why God does or doesn't exist with science and facts. It can not be done that way as bmah has stated. It is to share and listen to the viewpoints of both people who believe and don't believe in God. But in all these posts I haven't read not one reason why someone doesn't believe in God except to say that he doesn't believe he exists because he can't prove he exists. While on the other hand, I have gave countless reasons why I believe by qouting many passages from the Bible to explain them. And so an atheist would say, "How do you know the Bible is an accurate source? Can you prove it to me? Again, using the same argument that something is not credible because it can not be proven. Years ago when the vast majority of the world believed the earth was flat, there were the few that said the earth is not flat, it is round. The people said no! You are wrong/crazy/ridiculous/stupid, the earth is definately flat. Can you prove to me that it's round? At the time it was not proven to the world that it was round, that is why everyone believed it was flat. But what happened? The world eventually found out that they were wrong, and the earth was round.

On the other hand, do any of you atheists reading this have any children? Are you close with your parents? Do you love them? If so, are your parents atheists as well?

The reason I ask these questions is because when you can understand the love a parent has for his/her child, you bring yourself closer to God and have a better understanding of why God does exist. If you're not a parent, you are not going to experience or understand this feeling first hand. Eventually you all will come to find out for yourselves that God does exist, it's only a matter of time. I love you all, so I hope you do so sooner rather then later.

[star reaper]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

that's pretty unnecessary, dorby. i'm looking for a genuine answer from a theist who considers evidence to be in his belief's favor, and that was just snarky and dismissive and noncontributive

edit: @star reaper man why you gotta post something that absurd right before i get your back god damn. you believe atheists find no "meaning" in life because this is your definition of "meaning": to love god our lord and savior and live according to his will. of COURSE atheists have no sense of meaning if that's the only definition you ascribe to it. some baaaaad equivocating:

--atheists have no sense of meaning in their life.
--how do you know that?
--because they don't believe in a higher power.
--how can you be sure that's the only form of meaning?
--because my higher power says it is.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

[Dorby]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

Eventually you all will come to find out for yourselves that God does exist, it's only a matter of time.

To become an atheist, we've already had that battle with ourselves.

[star reaper]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

Yes, we absolutely are.




EDIT: Fuck you are posting faster than I can reply. This view, as you just put it, has been debunked via physical evidence. The whole "global flood" thing / Noah's Ark / etc is nonsense.

How has it been debunked? what evidence do you have to say that without a doubt?

[star reaper]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

http://www.answersingenesis.org/media/video/ondemand/new-answers-2-dvd/best-proof-of-creation

Also, be back to chatting in a few hours. I have some work to do.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

What if I told you my faith IS a science? What if I told you my faith is a science in which you do not comprehend because you chose not to? I know God exists. Where's the evidence? The evidence is inside me and all around me. I sense the presence of God with my heart, mind, and soul. It is a sense that is above and beyond logic and reason. People who do not believe in god, do not understand God. They don't know God. I can not explain God to someone who is chosing not to understand God.

Because faith isn't science. Science is a physical framework. Scientific findings are universally verifiable. They're true for me, true for you, and true for everyone -- because we live in the same physical universe. You can't say you live on a flat Earth while I live on a round one because we can both see the exact same evidence to show that it is indeed round.

Religious faith is belief in something *without* such evidence. So it's not science. Again, see my reply to star reaper about what it means to have "religious evidence" and why it's problematic in a physical universe.

And so an atheist would say, "How do you know the Bible is an accurate source? Can you prove it to me? Again, using the same argument that something is not credible because it can not be proven.

Do you not see a problem with believing in something that can't be proven or disproven? If it can't be proven or disproven, it is indistinguishable from not existing.

Years ago when the vast majority of the world believed the earth was flat, there were the few that said the earth is not flat, it is round. The people said no! You are wrong/crazy/ridiculous/stupid, the earth is definately flat. Can you prove to me that it's round? At the time it was not proven to the world that it was round, that is why everyone believed it was flat. But what happened? The world eventually found out that they were wrong, and the earth was round.

Science is always adjusting its views.. If something is proven wrong or insufficient, it gets replaced by something stronger and more universally consistent. Religion, on the other hand, tends to maintain its views no matter how the evidence changes (a prime example being Creationists who refuse to acknowledge that evolution is true even though it's an open-and-shut case).

That's also why a hypothesis in the scientific method must be falsifiable.

On the other hand, do any of you atheists reading this have any children? Are you close with your parents? Do you love them? If so, are your parents atheists as well?

The reason I ask these questions is because when you can understand the love a parent has for his/her child, you bring yourself closer to God and have a better understanding of why God does exist. If you're not a parent, you are not going to experience or understand this feeling first hand. Eventually you all will come to find out for yourselves that God does exist, it's only a matter of time. I love you all, so I hope you do so sooner rather then later.

Why do you assume "love" implies a God? To an atheist, love is an emotion like any other. Love is still a chemical process in the brain. It's capable of utterly fantastic things, but it does nothing to say that it "trascends" in some way. Our brains are pretty amazing things, considering what they're made of.

[ilikexd]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

...and that's the circle of life


but going back to what bmah said:

"It's when you try to apply science to religion or religion to science that things don't make sense. That's comparing apples and oranges. So while they both can exist together, unfortunately a lot of people think that they have to be compared (and so logic from one train of thought is applied to the other which results in arguments that obviously will never be satisfiably resolved)."

That's what makes this such an interesting challenge. Remember, an atheist initiated this thread. How bias would it be to only hear the input of other atheists/agnostics? Do I annoy certain impatient atheists because i fail to explain my faith to them with science? What if I told you my faith IS a science? What if I told you my faith is a science in which you do not comprehend because you chose not to? I know God exists. Where's the evidence? The evidence is inside me and all around me. I sense the presence of God with my heart, mind, and soul. It is a sense that is above and beyond logic and reason. People who do not believe in god, do not understand God. They don't know God. I can not explain God to someone who is chosing not to understand God.

In response to the bolded parts in their respective order,

That is not the definition of science. Science is subject to scrutiny and review.

That is not the definition of evidence. Evidence is physically and readily accessible.


I am curious to know if you are also RB_Spirit, as you both intriguingly and uniquely use the word 'bias' as an adjective.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

How has it been debunked? what evidence do you have to say that without a doubt?

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-flood.html

As you can see, there's a lot.

Pretty clear-cut.

[Nullifidian]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread



I can't take the misconstruing of definitions anymore. Enjoy waiting for afterlife.

[Mollocephalus]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

That's what makes this such an interesting challenge. Remember, an atheist initiated this thread. How bias would it be to only hear the input of other atheists/agnostics? Do I annoy certain impatient atheists because i fail to explain my faith to them with science? What if I told you my faith IS a science? What if I told you my faith is a science in which you do not comprehend because you chose not to? I know God exists. Where's the evidence? The evidence is inside me and all around me. I sense the presence of God with my heart, mind, and soul. It is a sense that is above and beyond logic and reason. People who do not believe in god, do not understand God. They don't know God. I can not explain God to someone who is chosing not to understand God.

That's not evidence. It's only a matter of what you feel. You do not understand what evidence means, evidently.

But in all these posts I haven't read not one reason why someone doesn't believe in God except to say that he doesn't believe he exists because I can't prove he exists. While on the other hand, I have gave countless reasons why I believe by qouting many passages from the Bible to explain them. And so an atheist would say, "How do you know the Bible is an accurate source? Can you prove it to me? Again, using the same argument that something is not credible because it can not be proven. Years ago when the vast majority of the world believed the earth was flat, there were the few that said the earth is not flat, it is round. The people said no! You are wrong/crazy/ridiculous/stupid, the earth is definately flat. Can you prove to me that it's round? At the time it was not proven to the world that it was round, that is why everyone believed it was flat. But what happened? The world eventually found out that they were wrong, and the earth was round.

Good job using the worst possible example. The people who discovered the earth was round, they did it through experience. An experience that anyone can share and always get the same result. You can't do that with any god. You are not the daring who supports a revolutionary idea which will one day be confirmed. You're the one who keeps an old and outdated idea which has been around since forever, and which has never been confirmed by anything we've discovered. On the contrary, it gets weaker and weaker with any new thing we understand about the universe.

On the other hand, do any of you atheists reading this have any children? Are you close with your parents? Do you love them? If so, are your parents atheists as well?

The reason I ask these questions is because when you can understand the love a parent has for his/her child, you bring yourself closer to God and have a better understanding of why God does exist. If you're not a parent, you are not going to experience or understand this feeling first hand. Eventually you all will come to find out for yourselves that God does exist, it's only a matter of time. I love you all, so I hope you do so sooner rather then later.

This argument again. UGH. The feeling of being close with someone is unrelated to god. The intensity of love you can feel has nothing to do with your supposed spiritual thickness. Being a parent, having a deep bond with the life you have created does not get you in contact with god. It makes you feel what you already have inside. Stop using this denigratory argument. You are not enlightened. You are not morally above anyone else just because you believe in a mythological imaginary friend.

[customstuff]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

An Atheist starting the thread doesn't create a bias when he doesn't even state his opinion in the OP. The only reason this thread seems biased is because people that enjoy to discuss the evidence for God existing or not existing tend to be more logical thinkers, which in turn tend to be Atheists.

[gnr61]

Re: Atheism/Theism thread

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

ah. this. i uh.............. i see.

normally i try not to sound too dismissive, but dude. that's a fucking creationist apologetics lobby lmao. it's the definition of propaganda, if you think it's a credible source of scientific information then...

man i need to not get sucked into these things