Suicide.

[MarioNintendo]

Re: Suicide.

not to sound crass or crude but i feel strongly that suicide is a weak, "selfish" action.

While the consequences of suicide are all listed in your post, I don't believe it is a selfish action. I also don't think it's a heroic action. I've always seen suicide as despair pushed to the extreme, nothing more, nothing less.

In my opinion, every time you face a problem in your life, you have options on how to get through it. Suicide may be an option listed among many others from the whole beginning, but you wouldn't give it that much importance. However, I believe that, with every other trouble you encounter, that list of options shortens, so much so that all that is left is suicide.

Again, I am no expert in this, but this is how I feel about it.

[Vendetta21]

Re: Suicide.

Every time I've considered suicide (passingly) in the past it has usually been for reasons which could be roughly reduced to at some point not liking the situation I'm in, having it be persistent, and also have no will or capacity to fix the situation. Usually connected to the idea of being nothing but a drain on others.

The following rationalizations to make the act less horrific are usually things that disregard the human paradigm, and try to create a sense of connection with non-human aspects of reality. I.E. I am made of particles that won't disappear (and they get more complex and nuanced from there.)

The basic reason that you don't commit suicide is because when seriously considering it you have to take into account those who will feel the pain of you not being around or the bare, sheer horror of consciousness void. If that does not exist or for some reason you do not care about it, I imagine suicide becomes a thousand times easier.

Though suicide always seems like it stems from an incredibly solipsistic way of thinking.

Worth separating here is people who claim suicide in order to get attention, in which I think a completely different set of issues arises.

[Izwik]

Re: Suicide.

I never liked bumping threads, but I feel since I haven't seen any points I'd like to make in the thread already, that I should state them.

First of all, I don't think any of you are thinking of this nearly enough.

What makes suicide selfish first of all? Leaving the people who care about you. But what if no one cares about you? Also, wouldn't it be selfish of the people who care about you to guilt you into suffering through life?

People have different views on death. What if there's a purgatory, a heaven or a hell, reincarnation, some kind of spiritual plane of existence? No one knows. Maybe this person just wants to leave this world and go to the next, in the hopes that they'll have better luck. In this sense, the person could be thinking about suicide in an entirely logical manner.

[PlayTrumpet]

Re: Suicide.

I think it's unfortunate if people think they won't experience something better in THIS world. Sure, your life can suck. It can suck ALL the time - but I believe that there is nothing after this world. Suicide doesn't allow a release, it allows nothing. Once you're dead, you're not happy, you're not relieved to be away from the saddness of life; your consciousness is nonexistent (from my belief).

So, I don't know about calling suicide selfish, because I don't believe YOU gain anything from it. I do, however, call it unfortunate and sad. It's sad that some people have to live horrible lives or otherwise have reason to be extremely depressed. But this is the world where extreme sadness and extreme joy do coexist, and suicide is not a solution but rather it is nothingness.

We could always get into the discussion of assisted suicide, or about people who medically can not live a better life or a life without certain physical conditions, but right now I'm more focused on those for whom suicide is not a decision based on these things.

[Thatskier]

Re: Suicide.

People may think there reasons are "legit". But in all honesty, life can always get better, the world is far to incredible and just purely amazing that suicide should never be a choice. I can rarely think of one or two cases were suicide is nessesary. That would be if you are in so much extreme pain and are in the hostiple 24/7 ( such as some older people like to be put down because they are in just to much pain to enjoy life anymore as they have already lived and fulfilled a glorious life). The only other reason is if the person has been breaking the law to much ( killing ALOT of people, and not even learning a tad bit from those bad lessons [sometimes you cannot cure someone who just likes killing]) In which they would serve a better purpose as the society to just die ( can anyone say death row?). Listen, life is always a window full of opertunties dont let some road blocks slow you down (or kill you).

[midnghtraver]

Re: Suicide.

People may think there reasons are "legit". But in all honesty, life can always get better, the world is far to incredible and just purely amazing that suicide should never be a choice. I can rarely think of one or two cases were suicide is nessesary. That would be if you are in so much extreme pain and are in the hostiple 24/7 ( such as some older people like to be put down because they are in just to much pain to enjoy life anymore as they have already lived and fulfilled a glorious life). The only other reason is if the person has been breaking the law to much ( killing ALOT of people, and not even learning a tad bit from those bad lessons [sometimes you cannot cure someone who just likes killing]) In which they would serve a better purpose as the society to just die ( can anyone say death row?). Listen, life is always a window full of opertunties dont let some road blocks slow you down (or kill you).

I agree with you here. However as of so far, suicide is not a choice, its illigal. I hope that when i'm older, I may have the choice to end it cleanly with the help of a medical professional.

Accept your second point. Death Row is not suicide.

[blade_anime]

Re: Suicide.

Many on death row don't die for years, quiet a few die of natural causes. And being there SUCKS.

[eastsideman09]

Re: Suicide.

Quite the discussion. I think I should mention that I have not once contemplated suicide. I have considered, however, how the lives of others would be effected had I not existed/were to die, but I think that's a different situation. I also consider myself a fairly level-headed and strong individual.

Several people stated that suicide is selfish because the people around you love you and would be more than willing to help you...what if they're not? What if you're going through a horrible emotional or physical battle, and you literally have no one to turn to. Say your mom abandons you, she hates you. Your dad died. You have no friends. You spend each day in solitude and do nothing but think about the horrible things happening in your life. No one would care. Would you end it? After all, people don't show they love you until you're gone.

Rather than end your life, why not take strides in changing it? Your suicide would/should be your own decision, not done in spite of everything/anyone surrounding you.
I would think the self-motivation it takes to change yourself or your situation would be the same as the self-motivation it takes to truly want to end yourself, if not easier (optimism wouldn't hurt, either). This includes the people with mental disorders, albeit depends on the severity.

Your life is your own. Being able to choose for yourself what you want to do with your life should be your own freedom.

I agree, and I'd like to add, as far as dealing with someone's suicide, that expressing/understanding your emotions is important. Be sad "that" it happened, not "because" it happened; the cause was self-imposed, you shouldn't concern yourself with the intricacies of others when you have yourself to deal with first and foremost.

For me, talking to someone did absolutely nothing. I had friends listen to me, I had counselors listen to me. So what? It didn't accomplish anything.

With that attitude, of course it didn't.

Honestly, sit down and think about it. Say you know you're mentally ****ed up, and you know that it's going to be a challenge for you to just do everyday things for the rest of your life

Embrace, accept, and conquer that challenge. If it were easy, it wouldn't be called a challenge, and in the end, you will benefit and become a stronger individual with a greater sense of self.

But what's important to note is that relative to the person experiencing the lack of will to live, those other options are either unknown or not worth pursuing.

I understand this concept, but I can't empathize with it, and I think that's a good thing. I'm not sure how this effects my interpretation/opinion of the matter, either. I'd like to think I'm not just blowing smoke.

What makes suicide selfish first of all?

For it to be legitimately justified, shouldn't it be? After all, it's a decision you make for yourself.

If the actions of other people are effecting you enough to shatter your stability, you probably weren't stable enough to begin with. Allowing yourself to break is what makes you weak, and acting upon that is not justifiable. Getting broken against your will (rape, accidents, being born with __, etc) and suffering the trauma as a result is a completely different scenario, and I wouldn't know about any of that. I know mental disorders can be treated, and I know they range in severity. I'd like to think most people with them still possess the ability to fix/change themselves before suicide is seriously considered, and it's their willpower that will determine their strength or weakness. I understand suicide is typically a last resort, but how will you ever know whether or not it actually is your only/last option if you succeed? By doing so you're eliminating any possibility of growth and recovery.

Suicide shouldn't be a spur of the moment kind of thing, you should know yourself and fully understand the situation you're in. Don't stop searching for possibilities until all are found, don't stop your introspection until you know yourself (and you won't truly find your identity until your brain has finished maturing). When you do, then you can ask yourself: Is it worth it? Are you sure? Are you REALLY sure? Ask yourself that for both scenarios, life and death, before you choose one. (At least that's how I think I would go about handling it.)

People have different views on death. What if there's a purgatory, a heaven or a hell, reincarnation, some kind of spiritual plane of existence? No one knows. Maybe this person just wants to leave this world and go to the next, in the hopes that they'll have better luck.

That reasoning would require a leap of faith into the unknown. On the same token, you can take that same leap in pursuing life, rather than ending it, because you never know what it will bring you.

[yo man im awesome]

Re: Suicide.

People keep saying "well what if s/he has no friends". Maybe if they stop being a whiny bitch and actually talk to people, they'd get some.

In my opinion, I would think it's considerably harder to see that option. When you're in that position, I would think people generally think towards the worse/worst case scenarios, and when they finally come to when they try to find help, sometimes suicide is the first option, rather than talking to someone. People who are suicidal probably find it much more difficult to muster up the courage to talk to someone, they feel that it wouldn't help.

[Betsy7Cat]

Re: Suicide.

A quote I heard in Health class the other day: "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."
Of course, while experiencing a problem, it can feel as though it'll never end. But from what I've noticed, things seem complicated until you figure them out, and then they seem so much easier. In the same way, waiting 5 minutes for something may seem like forever, but then looking back at that amount of time, personally, that 5 minutes suddenly actually feels like it was indeed only 5 minutes. (Although I might just have a good sense of time, or maybe it's just because I tend to be a literalist, see things logically/mathematically, and stuff like that.)
In other words, said problem (or problems) feel permanent while being experienced, but when they end, looking back in hindsight, said problems are then, by logic, temporary.
So what I think that quote is supposed to do is help people realize that life problems are temporary. Except now I'm remembering the mental illness factor. Although coping mechanisms can make at least the worst part of that problem temporary. But of course, if there is an inability to develop coping mechanisms… well… wait. I think I'm just going in a circle with this one. At least that's where it seems to be going. Not to mention I'm probably just saying the same thing over and over in different ways. Anyway… end paragraph.

Personally, if I need stuff to stop, I play games, do origami, take a nap, have a snack, or maybe even try to figure out how to stop the root of the problem. I don't think that works for everyone though. I tend to have a strong "mental check" (double-checking for consequenses and such) for extreme things like the one being discussed, and not everyone has that. I don't think it's easy to develop either. Especially these days, where people can get impatient if they have to wait any amount of time. Not that everyone does of course. But too many do, and impatience often makes others feel rushed, and rushing often leads to unwanted negative aspects that would likely not exist had there not been rushing. It can lead to positive things as well of course, like if there was no deadline for anything, less things would get done. But if the negative aspects are major, such as too much stress leading to depression… well dangit, I lost my train of thought.

Well, I hope at least some of that made sense. And I hope it wasn't too tangential, either. I tend to do that a lot.

[Necrophage]

Re: Suicide.

Some problems are temporary.

Others, such as losing a loved one are not.

I have contemplated suicide several times in my life, and even failed at it a few times.

First when I lost my grandfather, who was the closest thing I ever had to a father.

The second time was when my son died. I pray no one ever has to go through that.

The third and last time was when my wife left me for another man. When that failed I said **** it. Must be a reason why I'm here.

Suicide isn't selfish in my opinion. Its your life and should you choose to end it thats on you. Just know that any form of an afterlife hasn't been proven to exist and you may be throwing away the only chance you'll ever have at doing ANYTHING.

[BeatofIke]

Re: Suicide.

People often turn to suicide because they are seeking relief from pain. Remember that relief is a feeling. And you have to be alive to feel it. You will not feel the relief you so desperately seek, if you are dead.

[Necrophage]

Re: Suicide.

On the other hand, if you're dead you no longer feel that pain that you were seeking relief from.

[ddrxero64]

Re: Suicide.

Suicide isn't selfish in my opinion. Its your life and should you choose to end it thats on you. Just know that any form of an afterlife hasn't been proven to exist and you may be throwing away the only chance you'll ever have at doing ANYTHING.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Exactly my thoughts on a thread like this.

[dandandamdandan1111]

Re: Suicide.

What if everyone was wrong about what happens after you die? What if religion is just a sham or curtain only hiding the real truth? Nobody can actually "prove" what happens after you die, so what if killing yourself really was the way out of the day-to-day problems that tend to always be rotating in cycles? I mean if you think about it, the possibilities of what happens in the afterlife could be looked at by someone living a mediocre life as an escape, or a way out. That's basically my view on suicide, and the only reason that I haven't killed myself already is because of my will to live, and my curiosity of the endless possibilities that could potentially be in my(or anyone else's) life according to how the individual chooses to live their life.

But on the other hand, what if you really do get sent to "hell" or a place of ultimate agony, endless suffering, eternal pain etc.? Then, suicide would only be the quickest route to the inevitable. Not saying that's what i believe would happen, but its always a good comparison to look at things from the other part of the spectrum.