Suicide.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: Suicide.

Here's the thing -- humans are social creatures. We've evolved that way -- we feel happier and are generally more successful at any metric we choose when we're with others. Especially if you read Gladwell's book Outliers, it's all the more apparent that nobody ever makes it alone.

I definitely can see what you're saying, but at the same time that goes into the concept of success. Many things I find as successes are completely useless to others IRL and things others find as something to be prideful about I don't care. For example, I don't care about being a rich person but I'm not slacking off, yet I've seen many people obsessed about possessing much wealth and wanting to be like famous celebrities. When I'm with others, I am restricted on what I can do or say so I wind up just feeling even less safe. That's the wonderful thing about the internet - you can ask a question or make a statement anonymously or without immediate threat (interrupting in the middle of talking, fear of the person attacking you physically, etc).

Of course, there's a difference between living an introverted/solitary lifestyle and being alone. You can live a solitary lifestyle and still have people to talk to when you wish -- people who can help you. When you're suffering alone, you have no one else to help you but yourself. You may even have friends you can talk to, but none of them may be close enough to really empathize with you. This can be a problem if a mind is so lost and confused that it justifies/talks itself into an irrational framework that ultimately results in suicide.

This is an interesting point you bring up - I have a loner mindset and that's what has made me "successful" in life. That is, actually appreciating my life and what I have rather than being depressed and having to worry about what others think of me (this goes back to your "social beings" point - I also have to consider what others think of me). I guess it has to do with me having trouble showing affection yet at the same time being able to be respectful of others' opinions. I've been able to help myself so I don't have a need for acquiantances except for anyone that's like "HURRRR you have no friends you have no life loser", but I really couldn't care less.

I don't think there's anything unhealthy about having friends online, but you also have to keep in mind that online communities are temporary. People come and go -- and eventually leave for good. I've been a member of plenty of online communities, but the people I encounter are only a part of my communicable life for a few years. It's hard to make "good friends" in such a small time. Are you okay with the notion of temporary friendships?

Oh yes, definitely - I mean, it's only been 2 years since I started using AIM. All the guys I talk to on AIM are "good friends", and DragonsFury is the best online community I've seen in terms of tolerance and respect. Even if they're temporary, it's better than a long distrustful relationship like I have with my parents. I don't feel safe at all talking to my parents or brothers, yet I am comfortable with talking about things online in private - even then there are things I don't mention.

[Spenner]

Re: Suicide.

I have bipolar disorder, and throughout the last year I've developed schizophrenia.

There are many times when I feel dead inside, even when nothing is apparently wrong. The brain chemicals alter the thought processes that should be positive into something negative-- thinking about friends I have; in that state of mind, every negative feeling is grown enormously. I am sometimes social, but not as social as I should be, and that aids the downwards progression of a mood, as well as every little thing-- how I don't talk enough, how I'm dyslexic, how I'm alone and will never have a sustainable relationship; it all hits hard.

But there is so much more certainty in life than death... I don't even KNOW if there would be an ability to feel positive at all, for sure, in death. So I've stuck it to myself to, no matter what, remain alive and just experience whatever life puts at me.

In more recent times, this has been interesting, because with schizophrenia I've partitioned myself into two or three. I have my mind, which I view as an aura, which sees every aspect of me in a third person view. When I do feel extremely down, to the point where I'm sick to my stomach and physically paralyzed, I dissociate on an extreme level, to where it's basically an out of body experience (well, typically they are actual OBE's. Music helps it as well)

But enough elaborating on that fact... tl;dr, my individual way of coping with the need to escape, is to escape. It's not a very healthy way, and I'm a screwed up person IRL because of it (schizophrenia is not a minor thing...), but I'm happy with it.

I don't know if any of that made any sense at all, but whatever. /contribution.

Nobody should commit suicide. If anything, go run away and go camp out in a beautiful place out in the middle of nowhere with nature until you starve to death. The atmosphere might encourage you to continue living, if you're one for the beauty of nature. Think of what you'll be missing!!!!!

[Cavernio]

Re: Suicide.

As someone who would be dead if I had known about how lethal some drugs are, I definitely have an opinion about suicide.

It is not wrong. It is selfish for someone else to tell you you're being selfish for wanting your pain to end, whether they love you or not. For me, talking to someone did absolutely nothing. I had friends listen to me, I had councillors listen to me. So what? It didn't accomplish anything. Ah, I'm hanging out with friends, they're trying really ****ing hard to make me laugh, and I don't find it funny. I had support from people, but that didn't change how I felt most of the time. Social situations stressed me out because I had to put on an act. I avoided talking to my parents because, after seeing them flip at my sister and getting angry at her for crying about stuff all the time. I avoided them as much as possible, and they flipped at me for doing that. My mom felt like I was using her because I avoided her, but I avoided her because if I was really going to be myself around her, I would be crying most of the time, and that would make her even MORE hurt. Where do you get the justification to call people like ME selfish, when I was trying to hurt people as little as possible? Of course all that stuff with my parents just made me hurt more, but that wasn't the cause, or my feelings wouldn't have gone away if they had been understanding, because like I said, I had great friends who I tried to lean on.

Honestly, sit down and think about it. Say you know you're mentally ****ed up, and you know that it's going to be a challenge for you to just do everyday things for the rest of your life, because really, the prognosis for most mental illnesses are still ****. Even though I've been happier the past 4-6 months than I have been since I was 16, I have to face the fact that I will likely become depressed again. And I'm a good case. I can basically look after myself. I've had very few bouts where pulling myself out of bed to shower requires so much strength and effort that I just can't do it. But there are so many out there who can't, and who struggle and cry over that fact among a myriad of other things. What if they're spouse or parents have been looking after them for 10 or more years, and they just aren't getting better? How would YOU like to be a parent looking after your 30 year old, or 40 year old kid because they're too depressed, because they lie in bed and CRY all day. At some point, it is not selfish to end your own life. Please tell me how this is illogical and I'm not thinking right, because clearly, being someone who's wanted so much to die at so many points in their life, I was obviously not being LOGICAL, was obviously not thinking right. **** it pisses me off what some people say to the mentally ill; they choose to blame them saying they're just not trying hard enough (completely IGNORING the fact that a symptom of depression is to take away your will power); they call them illogical, and they choose to think that there IS help, possibly because the reality simply hurts too much to acknowledge it, or most likely because drug companies really just sell hope. (Even psychiatrists acknowledge their treatments work about as well as placebo most of the time, through their very own studies.)

I'll tell you this, the same thought about doing the same thing, like going on vacation, depending on my mood, will either make the thought of going on vacation immediately good, or immediately bad. And I think this is an example at least a few of you can relate to. I can analyze all the **** out of it as much as I want, and give myself a bullet point list of all the good reasons going on vacation is fun (many of which would be the reason I'd have made those reservations in the first place), but that doesn't change the way I feel about it at that point in time. Furthermore, on those same lines, yeah, life isn't always bad, even when depressed, there are moments of calm, niceness. But along the same lines, there's always going to be pain in the future too. To choose to ignore one or the other IS being illogical, although choosing to ignore most of the negatives will likely give you a lot more happiness. But again, depending on what your initial feelings are about something, its very, very hard to alter that. If I'm happy, there are rainbows ahead, if i'm sad, there's storm clouds, or however you want to put it, even though I always know full-well that both are ahead.

Basically, I see people who are douches about this subject (ie: people who call people who commit suicide and who want to commit suicide, weak), are extremely ignorant, and are closed minded.

[Elite Ninja]

Re: Suicide.

Someone at our school has been on the verge of suicide for a while and what I have noticed is that he always looks at the bad side of things. He never thinks positive about anything and always focuses on the negative.

[welsh_girl]

Re: Suicide.

Didn't read most posts, by my opinion on the subject.

Suicide is not selfish. When people say the person who commited suicide only cared about what they were going through and how miserable their life is, are far from the truth.

You might think its easy for the person who does it.. but suicide is the last resort, after every other avenue for them has been taken. Some people have such trajedy in their lives that the only way they can deal with it is by ending their lives.

Most are depressed and depression is a horrible illness, people become convinced no one would care about them if they die. What a horrible thought to have.

[Without A Contraceptive]

Re: Suicide.

aaaaaaaaaand its obvious you have never known anyone who attempted or has commmitted suicide.

chin's post needs a little more attention.

sorry my friend but the majority of people who attempt or commit suicide are weak. maybe if youre as crazy as you describe i could come closer to understanding your choice but even if that's the case, i will still consider you selfish and weak.

[All_That_Chaz]

Re: Suicide.

sorry my friend but the majority of people who attempt or commit suicide are weak.

Define "weak."

[Without A Contraceptive]

Re: Suicide.

in the context i used it, "weak" means many things. unable to cope with Life, unable to recognize that there are people who you will leave distressed if you kill yourself, unable to see that youre taking the "easy way out".

[All_That_Chaz]

Re: Suicide.

Do you think there's some wiggle room when it comes to just how bad someone has it? Do you consider someone who kills themself because they lost their cellphone to be weaker than someone with a terminal illness and is in constant real physical pain? Or are they both equally weak?

If there's any gray area, then you can't make generalizations about everyone who commits suicide.

[customstuff]

Re: Suicide.

In my opinion, those people could actually be stronger than most others. Maybe some people wish they could commit suicide, but too weak to do so. I believe that if someone had comitted suicide then they most likely thought about the consequences and eventually thought it would be worth it.

You shouldn't judge someone for being weak when you haven't lived their life. Everyone has their little troubles in life, but people who commit suicide most likely have a lot more to deal with than most people. Sure, everyone thinks differently about things, but at the beginning everyone was basically the same. All of our opinions on things were based off of what we have learnt over the years and the experiences we've had. It's very disrespectful to say someone was weak for committing suicide, especially since you can't live their life.

@Chaz. If a person killed themselves over losing their cellphone, then there's most likely one of two things:

1. That person has been dealing with an extreme amount of stress and that one little thing finally pushed them over the edge.

2. That person has had absolutely no stress for their entire life (i.e. being rich and living a care-free life) and didn't know how to deal with it when they first experienced stress like that.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Suicide.

I don't know if Without A Contraceptive is trolling or if he's serious, but I'll take him at face value here because most people on this site are pretty thick, mentally speaking. You're completely wrong to say that all people who commit suicide are "weak" -- this is an absolutely retarded generalization and you're clearly falling victim to selection bias.

Most people who turn to suicide do so because they've run out of options. It's not as simple as pointing a finger and saying someone is weak for not coping/getting over their issues. Sometimes those issues are so inescapable to the point where all options have been exhausted. You may think someone is weak because from YOUR perspective/current state of life, their issues *should* be easy to cope with. You have to take all variables into account here. Their life != your life. It's almost never the same dynamic. Furthermore, people don't always know what they can do to fix their situations to begin with -- either that or they're simply too scared/unstable to try (usually there's a massive utility risk in doing so).

It's the same sort of disgusting logic where people say "Homeless people are just lazy and need to get jobs" without understanding why so many people are homeless to begin with.

[krunkykai22]

Re: Suicide.

Wow, there is just so much debate going on in here. Well, as someone said earlier about lethal drugs; Cocaine, Heroine, Weed, X, PCP, LSD, Crack, Perx, Oxy, etc. Around the age of 18-21 I did this things religiously without thinking. I should be dead by definition of "overdose," but I'm not. I can't say that that is a technical "suicide" attempt. It's just misuse.

Suicide is the KNOWLEDGE that you ARE TRYING to die, and you're doing it from your own two hands. Taking drugs that you didn't know could kill you isn't suicide. Just had to put that out there.

Unless it's all of those above in one situation then it's pretty selfish. It's pretty odd when younger kids do it. I can understand if you are overwhelmed with debt and have no one who is your friend/spouse/any real family. But, if you have any of those relationships, suicide is pretty selfish. At least IMO.

I understand that someone can be going through deep pain and may have a very hard time with life, but when a young kid does it because, my parents hate me, they took away me computer for 2 weeks ////wrists, or, my girlfriend of 2 years broke up with me, I better kill myself.

That is what doesn't make sense to me. Any amount of depression can be overcome as long as you have support from friends/spouse/family. If you are going through a very difficult time in yer and you think about suicide, think about the other options that are available. Any type of therapy can be a very big help, wither it's from a professional or just from a friend. Even just looking at some of the positives you have in yer life should be a big help.

Anyway, I believe suicide is selfish and pretty pointless unless the situation you are in is overwhelming bleak. I only think it should be attempted if you are literally being physically/mentally tortured somewhere where escape is impossible.

That's just my opinion, I look forward to reading everyone's opinion.

Agreed with entirely...

for people who were too coward to live life

I know Kommi can be a troll, but not for this thread man come on.

This Is Critical Thinking.



So lets say 80% of sucides are affected by mental disorders. My brother has a mental disorder and I do not consider his actions to be selfish, he does not intend to be the way he is as such but has a chemical in balance in his brain.

So I would say most suicides are not intentionally selfish due to mental illness.

Most? So most suicides are from people who are mentally challenged? Maybe like 30% of people are mentally challenged. But, even then, a slight percentage to those that have depression compared to those that want a scooby doo lunch box.

Is this suppose to be a chit-chat thread about peoples feelings on suicide and how they think it might happen to people or is it suppose to be somewhat of a factual discussion?

Factual things:
Relating personal experience with suicide (attempts etc...)
Having people close to you attempt/commit suicide.
People who study/work with suicidal people.
Research on suicide etc...

Sorry, I guess people spouting bull**** that they think of off the top of there heads and calling it intelligent discussion isn't my cup of tea.

Oh, hush. Just because people have their OWN opinion about things doesn't mean it's wrong. You want facts? Here:


1.)Industrialized countries tend to have a higher suicide rate than poor, developing countries
2.)The U.S. has a moderate suicide rate compared to other industrialized countries.
3.)U.S. Suicide rates are highest in the western and rocky mountain states. They are are lowest in the Northeastern states.
4.)Canadian suicide rates are similar: highest in British Columbia, on the west coast, and lowest in Newfoundland, on the east coast.

And one more:
There were 31,204 deaths by suicide recorded in 1995; 30,535 in 1997; 33,000 in 2006 (the latest data available at 2009-SEP-10). 5 The actual number is probably significantly higher, because many suicides are recorded as accidents.

There's facts. Now, you can continue to talk about this if you'd like

But, this thread was not made to be just factual let's look at the OP

Why do people commit suicide? Is it a "selfish" act? How do you define "selfish?"

Discuss your thoughts concerning this difficult subject here.

I think that shows it all. THOUGHTS

where it gets complicated is where the observations are legitimate. Consider someone who has a family that legitimately DOESN'T care about their wellbeing and WOULDN'T give their own lives to keep that person alive. Consider someone who may have few to no close friends/family or may be experiencing severe medical or financial troubles. Perhaps they screwed up horribly in school or can't find work etc. Perhaps these problems keep cropping up even with a healthy dose of help.

When is suicide "acceptable"? Where do we draw the line?

Personally, I don't think suicide is ever "acceptable" because no where in any law book or religious book will you find suicide to be acceptable. By moral standard or not.

The only way I could see suicide as personally valid is if you somehow live through it. What meaning does suicide have then? As a meaningless act, there's no reason to do or not do it, or anything else.

Suicide valid??? what the ...... no DEATH should be valid unless they die of natural causes... Agree with AJ on this one, its technically not suicide.

and here's my stance:

regardless of whether or not suicide is selfish, it is always acceptable/permissible, and our legislation should reflect that. in the end, there is only one person who has control over his own life, and that is himself. EDIT BY KRUNKY = himself/HERSELF (gotta include everyone )

i think the implications of prohibiting suicide are frightening. you're essentially legislating "psychological harm" which is, at least for NOW, far too dubious and arbitrary to incorporate into law in such a manner.

Ummmm, again, law/suicide/legislation.... why is Suicide being related to legislation? Are the people who killed themself going to jail? Are they going to have to go to court to defend their actions? No. People committed suicide they are dead and passed on, leave it to the family and friends to mourn.

Your life is your own. Being able to choose for yourself what you want to do with your life should be your own freedom.

Wow izzy ..... Nice 2 liner here but very true.

A question for you guys: What's so bad about being alone? I personally like quiet time by myself. In fact, living a life of solitude with internet is all I need - "going outside" with friends (read: acquaintances) for me is just a waste of time since it's not really fun and sometimes they just like to drink and smoke.

Do you guys like quiet time by yourselves? Why would being alone make you depressed? Technically I'm alone practically all the time except when I'm in school or there's something my parents want me to do or some other event like a vacation - I'm in my room reading, resting, doing bicep exercises, on the laptop, homework, whatever else. I don't have any true friends in real life to talk to but I am not depressed/lonely. If anything, online is where all my REAL friends are at, and even then that's only a few.

Everyone loves their own quiet time. It's their time to space themselves from in person reality. It gives a person time to just deal with whatever it is they are doing, or to just relax and chill. I love my quiet time. I do what I want and it lets me get back to normal, if I can say that.



All in all, suicide is a selfish act because selfish means to do for yourself without concern of others. You want something you take it regardless of the poor homeless boy in the corner, you want that 10,000 dollar prize. You forget about just how easy it is to just go for what you want. Very rarely with suicide will you see someone THINK about anyone else but their own problems...... I had a near suicide attempt to prove that .....

[Cavernio]

Re: Suicide.

Suicide is the KNOWLEDGE that you ARE TRYING to die, and you're doing it from your own two hands. Taking drugs that you didn't know could kill you isn't suicide. Just had to put that out there.

I know you talked about yourself, but I just want to clarify what I said earlier, in that if I had known how ineffectual ibuprofen, aspirin and wellbutrin are at killing someone, I would have taken something a little more lethal.

Most? So most suicides are from people who are mentally challenged? Maybe like 30% of people are mentally challenged. But, even then, a slight percentage to those that have depression compared to those that want a scooby doo lunch box.

To anyone who cares, the term 'mentally challenged' was a replacement for the word 'retarded', and the term that we should be using here is 'mentally ill'. But I would like to know where you get the idea that most people who commit suicide do so because they can't get an item out of life that they really want. You said yourself that you've thought about suicide, and I also suspect the vast majority of people at some point have also considered suicide. There's a big difference between thinking about something, to actually doing something.

All in all, suicide is a selfish act because selfish means to do for yourself without concern of others. You want something you take it regardless of the poor homeless boy in the corner, you want that 10,000 dollar prize. You forget about just how easy it is to just go for what you want. Very rarely with suicide will you see someone THINK about anyone else but their own problems...... I had a near suicide attempt to prove that .....

The fact that you almost tried to commit suicide over something you think of now as shallow is by no means proof that most suicides are also over equally shallow things.

[Oni-Paranoia]

Re: Suicide.

Most people who turn to suicide do so because they've run out of options. It's not as simple as pointing a finger and saying someone is weak for not coping/getting over their issues

"...run out of options." is wrong to assume. Most of the times their is many options that we don't try or see because we are usually to hurt, depressed etc... to think about it.

Theirs a phrase police use to describe someone who leaves behind clues in a murder scene; the murderer senses that they did something wrong and a certain feeling overcame obviousness pretty much. I assume that phrase would fit here.

"It's not as simple as pointing a finger and saying someone is weak for not coping/getting over their issues"

Agreed. Everyone experiences something different, but because we're human and have this mentality of normal/average and we're just a pawn in the game of life, if someone loses their wife most of us can probably can assume (stupidly yet easily) he's a pathetic jerk for crying about it and taking his life for it.

I assume you're referring to what I said. I took drugs I hoped would kill me, and they didn't. Had I known how ineffective ODing on wellbutrin, aspirin, and ibuprofen is, I would have searched for something a little more lethal.

I can relate to this 100% (Just had more of a variety within my story).

[Reincarnate]

Re: Suicide.

Oni, I don't mean "run out of options" as some sort of universal truth. In most cases there ARE other options. But what's important to note is that relative to the person experiencing the lack of will to live, those other options are either unknown or not worth pursuing.