Suicide.

[Shikari]

Re: Suicide.

Unless it's all of those above in one situation then it's pretty selfish. It's pretty odd when younger kids do it. I can understand if you are overwhelmed with debt and have no one who is your friend/spouse/any real family. But, if you have any of those relationships, suicide is pretty selfish. At least IMO.

You may be in quite a lot of pain, but killing yourself means that you are going to tear apart those that are close to you. Losing someone is very, very hard -- emotionally, intellectually, psychologically, financially, logistically, and spiritually.

Well, my response is:


Sometimes, it's so much pressure that one just can't handle, and he/she just can't think about anyone's feelings. In this case, in my opinion, it's more like despair than selfishness, because he/she just want to end it all, and only this, nothing else.

Imagine a 15, 16 years old, or even younger, with a "weak" mind and feelings, passing through the end of a relationship that he/she thought it would be forever (I know, nothing is forever, specially at this age, but who never felt like this before?), or the divorce of his/her parents, or the death of a friend, or even these three situations together. As I said before, death becomes a salvation in these cases.

[Yieldsign]

Re: Suicide.

The only way I could see suicide as personally valid is if you somehow live through it. What meaning does suicide have then? As a meaningless act, there's no reason to do or not do it, or anything else.

uhm what

I suppose the "meaning" in it for its perpetrator is that the onslaught of torment/pain ends.

not sure why something has to have "meaning" (which in itself is a really dubious term; i don't even know what you mean by that honestly) to be "valid" (and again, what does "valid" mean here? does valid mean meaningful?)

[darkshark]

Re: Suicide.

Several people stated that suicide is selfish because the people around you love you and would be more than willing to help you...what if they're not? What if you're going through a horrible emotional or physical battle, and you literally have no one to turn to. Say your mom abandons you, she hates you. Your dad died. You have no friends. You spend each day in solitude and do nothing but think about the horrible things happening in your life. No one would care. Would you end it? After all, people don't show they love you until you're gone.

I'm playing the devils advocate here, I don't feel as though suicide should EVER be an option, unless you're already on your death bed or are in some sort of vegetative state.

[UnkownMan]

Re: Suicide.

People keep saying "well what if s/he has no friends". Maybe if they stop being a whiny bitch and actually talk to people, they'd get some.
Apparently, people don't see these things. They don't have any money? They can get a minimum wage job. No friends? Stop complaining and talk to people, maybe at the minimum wage job. Parents neglecting you? Stand up for yourself and try to communicate with them. They'd love to hear of how you m ade friends at your minum wage job.
I've seen this stuff multiple times, and it's just nothing to me now.

[Shikari]

Re: Suicide.

Maybe if they stop being a whiny bitch and actually talk to people, they'd get some.

Nice advice there, man. If I was a "whiny bitch", I would thank you. Seriously.

[UnkownMan]

Re: Suicide.

Nice advice there, man. If I was a "whiny bitch", I would thank you. Seriously.

I fixed the original post.

[5.points]

Re: Suicide.

People keep saying "well what if s/he has no friends". Maybe if they stop being a whiny bitch and actually talk to people, they'd get some.

With some personality disorders maintaining any kind of relationship is near impossible. As Darkshark said, would if all your friends and or family have died?

[Kesshutsu]

Re: Suicide.

uhm what

I suppose the "meaning" in it for its perpetrator is that the onslaught of torment/pain ends.

not sure why something has to have "meaning" (which in itself is a really dubious term; i don't even know what you mean by that honestly) to be "valid" (and again, what does "valid" mean here? does valid mean meaningful?)

Believing I don't know anything about pain is hard.
Knowing I don't know anything about pain, might involve experiencing some pain.

But as for knowing about death, what does that have to do with experiencing pain?

[UnkownMan]

Re: Suicide.

I have a personality disorder, yet I still have friends, because I know how to overcome. It's people who don't make an effort to, because they're all sad that let it get to them. It's not hard.

EDIT: I'm trying to explain this best i can without sounding like a douche, so I apologize if I am.

[Shikari]

Re: Suicide.

It's not that easy for them, UnkownMan. Potentials suicides don't have mental "strength" to brace themselves and even try to keep on living. They're so destroyed that they just can't get up. So, telling them to "get a minimum wage job" or friends is useless.

[5.points]

Re: Suicide.

I have a personality disorder, yet I still have friends, because I know how to overcome. It's people who don't make an effort to, because they're all sad that let it get to them. It's not hard.

I said some personality disorder and I mean MOST. People with Schizotypal personally disorder for example. They live completely isolated lives and personally disorder are extremely hard to do anything about, even with therapy and medications. It's more than just sadness.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Suicide.

if your pen0r is small, it's okay.

wai m i not ded yet

o

UTHINKIMGAYBRO?

this is a thread about suicide
im not trying to become an hero.
-__

...if you're incapable of thinking critically (or at all), you really should stray away from a forum that asks you to take a legitimate stance.

Onto the topic of suicide - I want to stem off of Marcus' question here:

When is suicide "acceptable"? Where do we draw the line?

A major problem with this question is the fact that people pass off the potential predicaments that a person could have been in, and use the same general answer saying that it's selfish and that they could have talked to x people.

When a situation like this happens, I find it very difficult to believe that those who commit suicide can actually talk to someone, otherwise they probably would not proceed with the action in the first place. If there was a shoulder for a person to seriously and legitimately cry on, they would probably take it. It is also the very same reason why those who are typically "close" with the victim are in complete shock and agony because they never felt or sensed that they could commit such an action. It almost seems like the extreme pain within a person's mind is so much that a proper idea would be to physically (and permanently) eliminate yourself from everything else around you in an effort to stop anymore pain from entering your life. While this thought seamlessly fits into the definition of selfish, it's also logical at a basic level.

Now, I personally don't condone suicide in any form, because it's almost always true - a person who is in such pain usually will have SOMEONE they can turn to; they just do not realize it.

The only way I could see suicide as personally valid is if you somehow live through it. What meaning does suicide have then? As a meaningless act, there's no reason to do or not do it, or anything else.

By definition, this would no longer be a suicide. HOWEVER, I do understand where you're trying to go with this idea - if a person were to inflict so much pain to themselves only to not die, what would they do then? It would be meaningless in a sense, but I don't think it would detract future thoughts of suicide. If anything, it might make them even worse.

EDIT: Darkshark pretty much summed it up the same way I did before I finished my post.

[mhss1992]

Re: Suicide.

People always do the things they consider most satisfactory. If they're truly depressed or have no expectation of a happy life, they might consider this to be the best thing to do, as they probably see their pain as something absolutely pointless and not worth enduring. In other words: stupid reasons.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Suicide.

What if you're going through a horrible emotional or physical battle, and you literally have no one to turn to. Say your mom abandons you, she hates you. Your dad died. You have no friends. You spend each day in solitude and do nothing but think about the horrible things happening in your life. No one would care. Would you end it? After all, people don't show they love you until you're gone.

darkshark: This description actually applies to me. I've always had some sort of emotional/physical struggle going on -- my mom abandoned the family and my father was killed. I had friends, but in many cases, they were surface-level -- and my true friends were few in number. I also went into a fairly large debt (luckily I am able to afford it with my job and everything) because of the stuff that went on with my family. Friends may be present, but they may be too uninvolved or scared to GET involved. They may not be able to really provide much solace. Counselors may come across as mere venting-receptacles. Even if you reach out to those closest to you, sometimes it just isn't enough.

I've contemplated suicide a few times, to be honest -- but in recent years, those thoughts have gone away as I've gained more friends, a girlfriend, a new life, an education, revisited hobbies, etc. Life is good again.

During those dark times when I've felt alone and burdened, suicide felt like a VERY attractive, viable option. When you feel very alone in the world with nobody who can empathize with your way of thinking -- or when everything in your life seems to be out of your control and going downhill -- it can be very tempting to just put an end to your misery, especially if it's chronic. But the thing that kept me from ever doing it was the notion that pressures are often temporary. Whenever things get dark, they always get better later if you are willing to reach out and either get help or work to improve your situation in some way.

[5.points]

Re: Suicide.

People always do the things they consider most satisfactory. If they're truly depressed or have no expectation of a happy life, they might consider this to be the best thing to do, as they probably see their pain as something absolutely pointless and not worth enduring. In other words: stupid reasons.

Would about people with drug addictions?

My aunt was severely addicted to narcotics and went through several rehab programs and none helped her. When she committed suicide she left a short note about how the drugs were going to kill her anyway. Drugs that are dangerously addictive can bring any strong minded person down to nothing. Once you've gone so far, you're literally left with nothing, no money, no friends, no one wants to be around you, you most likely never to get a job, no self confidence whatsoever.

I know that things like drug addictions start with the foolish action to start but what I'm trying to say is that suicide is caused by more just depression and sadness.