Acceptable Suicide?

[rzr]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

Again, they most certaitly are the same. The ends don't justify the means with suicide, as they do with sacrifice. But [again] in both cases your intentionally ending your own life knowing that knowing the outcome will be your demise. Simply because one is more admirable doesn't make it any different.

[FictionJunction]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

Suicide implies killing yourself.
Sacrificing yourself implies killing yourself.

Suicide implies the desire of killing yourself.
Sacrificing yourself implies the desire to save someone/something despite your desire to live/need to sacrifice/forced circumstances/fear of death/etc

difference

just because one word's definition includes the other doesn't make them the same thing.
it's not that difficult. Suicide =! Sacrifice

[rzr]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

I took the liberty of looking some of there words up:

Suicide - The act of or instance of intentionally killing oneself.

Sacrifice - 1. The offering of something to a deity. 2a. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sale of one that is said to have a greater value or claim. 2b. Something forfeited. 3. Relinquishment of something less than hour presumed value.

sacrificed - past tense of sacrifice

sacrificing - 1. To offer as a sacrifice. 2. To forfeit one thing for another thing considered of greater value. 3. To sell or give away at a loss.

Life - 1. The quality the distinguishes living organisms from dead and inanimate matter.2. Living organisms collectively. 3. a living being. 4. The interval between birth and death. 5. biography. 6. human existance, relationships, activities. 7. a manner of living. 8. liveliness; animation.


Live - 1. to be alive; existist. 2. to continue to be alive. 3. to subsist. 4. to reside. 5. To conduct one's life in a particular manner. 6. to remain in memory or usage

Based on these definitions I can only conclude that [as I've stated multiple times] the two instances of suicide and sacrifice of one's life are the same for these reasons:

1) When commiting suicide you are sacrificing your life, giving it up earlier than you would upon a death not inflicted by yourself. When commiting suicide you know that you are doing it and can stop it. You also know that the ending result will be your death.
2) Who sacrificing anything life you know you are giving it up for something of greater value (another definition I looked up). You know that what you give up will better the outcome of the situation in some way.
3) When sacrificing your life you are giving it up for something of presumed greater value. You know the outcome will be a better scenario than the assumed one in which you live.

That is to say that when you commit suicide you kill yourself for no reason that would henceforth benefit the greater good. When you sacrifice your life you pull kill yourself and know what you're doing, this time you are doing it to better influince the outcome of the entire scenario.

Note: I'm sorry for the double post, devonin, I'm going to put qualities of my previous post in this one and delete the last one.

EDIT: Never mind, fj posted right before I did and I didn't see it.

[FictionJunction]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

now you're playing with perspective and twisting your argument.

[atalkingcow]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

Edit:

Protective custody is a joke with the mass of undiscovered police brutality.

Wow...At least here in wisconsin...protective custody=you're arrested, transfered to the county medical center, and put in a nice little room for 3 days. (after that they have to release you if you're over 18 and certain criteria are met.)

So here's where your thought fails- The police are involved for all of an hour at best. After that you're in the hands of medical proffessionals and security guards.




Original post:
Okaaaay...So i read about the first 3 pages of this....it seems to be going in circles...fun!

Personally, I'm at a point in my life where suicide is looking incredibly appealing, and to be honest, there's only one thing stopping me.
If I commit suicide, at least 3 of my closest friends will as well.

Now...does this make me selfless for thinking only of them and with-holdling (sp?) from my own desires to protect them, or does this make THEM selfish for causing the mental battle that I have to deal with every day?

To accent my point a bit...I'm currently facing eviction from my house when I turn 18, along with being disowned (because I am a non-christian homosexual -.-):a court date on thursday for...stuff, with a possible sentence of 1 year jail time, and I'm being tried as an adult.

Basically, my reasons for wanting to commit suicide are purely out of fear.
Fear of Jail
Fear of being homeless.
Fear of having no future.

Am I selfish now for wanting to end it? (and start over-reincarnation ftw!)
Are my reasons not satisfactory?


(I would like to point out that many of the issues I have are due to my own decisions, made when I was younger, and now irreversible.)

[devonin]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

(and start over-reincarnation ftw!)

Hopefully sarcasm? If not, I think perhaps you should consider that reincarnation is an individually meaningless belief.

[rzr]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

How the heak is reincarnation an individually meaningless belief!?!?

[devonin]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

Hypothesis: People are reincarnated when they die

Premise: Either you remember your past life or you don't

Premise: I have never met any person in my entire life with memories of a past life

Premise: Either I've coincidentally only met brand new souls, or you do not remember your past life

Conclusion 1: It seems far more likely that you do not remember your past life, than that I have never once met a single person who wasn't a newly created soul

Conclusion 2: You don't remember your past life

Implication: If you don't remember your past lives, the fact that you had them is individually meaningless, because you cannot prove that you did, have no memory of them, and they have no visible impact on your life.

[Zythus]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

One needs to be absolute to be resolute. So please stop rewriting the dictionary and twisting arguments to the point where even if it had a point, it is no longer there. I think this topic is now concluded, seeing the previous pages of "circles" as Cow kindly notices.
Reincarnation is unrealistic, hence it does not possess enough physical nor scientific evidence to be used as an argument.

How the heak is reincarnation an individually meaningless belief!?!?

If you are willing to make a new thread about such beliefs based on religion or whatnot, please do so, but it does not have any coherence with this topic because we started from "Acceptable Suicide" to "Let's ponder and contrast definitions of the dictionary", knocked off course pages back. A little idealism about reincarnation certainly isn't benefiting this thread.

[atalkingcow]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

Hypothesis: People are reincarnated when they die

Premise: Either you remember your past life or you don't

Premise: I have never met any person in my entire life with memories of a past life

Premise: Either I've coincidentally only met brand new souls, or you do not remember your past life

Conclusion 1: It seems far more likely that you do not remember your past life, than that I have never once met a single person who wasn't a newly created soul

Conclusion 2: You don't remember your past life

Implication: If you don't remember your past lives, the fact that you had them is individually meaningless, because you cannot prove that you did, have no memory of them, and they have no visible impact on your life.

My religious beliefs are my own and I feel no need to defend them and steer this discussion off topic any further thanks. ^_^

I do however agree with zythus, this topic doesn't seem to be going anywhere productive.

[Zythus]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

Sorry Cow if my statement has discriminated against your religious beliefs in any matter. But I think if there was a topic about reincarnation, it would be a new topic with new arguments.

[devonin]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

I made a statement, rzr asked for a clarification, I provided one.

If you take issue with anything I said, yes a new thread would be a great place to do so.

[atalkingcow]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

I am not offended by anything anyone said. ^_^

(Shall we get back on topic now?)

[rzr]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

Ok, give me some time to collect some thoughts and put them into a good thread.

[Rad3n]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

What is going wrong with you're life now will probably be no issue in 10-15 years. If this will still be an issue in 15 years (eg. locked in solitary confinement) then I can understand suicide. If they are small things that feel signifigant at the time which lead to suicide, despite being small things. Then the people responsible are close family and friends. Why? They failed to help the suicide victim see things in a perspective which is rational.

So suicide is unacceptable in most instances. Suicide is for when there really is "no options left". And that, is a very rare thing.