Acceptable Suicide?

[devonin]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

And no, I will not commit suicide.

Like everyone in relative good health and a good mental state, you cannot possibly know how you might feel decades from now, suffering through intense and terminal pain.

[Frozen Beat]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

You guys all got a point. However, the average human will only believe what they want to, and a human's beliefs as an individual, is for themselves, and who will understand? If they believe that they will go to heaven, it is probably what the want to believe. If they want to believe that they're doing a good deed, that is what they'll believe, and.

Suicide...one thing that humans fear, loathe, hate, and yet. Come to accomplish for their own decision. Sick.

[devonin]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

I'm finding it difficult to unpack exactly what you're trying to get at here, you're a little unclear in your phrasing, could you reiterate?

The impression that I'm getting is you're arguing for the claim that people make their own decisions entirely independantly in a way that can't be understood by anybody else? That a person's reasoning for why they hold a belief can't be communicated to someone else in a way that lets them comprehend it?

I'm really not sure I can support that. There are enough things intrinsic to all people to give us a medium of communication to explain why we believe how we believe.

As to your last claim, I don't think you can speak absolutely like that. I don't fear suicide, I don't loathe suicide, and I don't hate suicide, and yet I'm human. I suspect there are others (Like everybody speaking in support of acceptable circumstances to justify suicide) who feel the same way.

You can say that someone who kills themselves is sick in the sense of unwell, on the grounds that the drive to survive is intrinsic to a properly functioning living human, and if someone loses the will to live, that they must be unwell in some capacity, but I get the impression that you were using 'sick' in the 'disgusting' sense, and I don't really think I can support that.

[Frozen Beat]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

Lol. Lets put it this way. Who wants suicide?

[sjoecool1991]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

Like everyone in relative good health and a good mental state, you cannot possibly know how you might feel decades from now, suffering through intense and terminal pain.

my grandmother never wanted to commit suicide, and she has lived with it for a long time now.

[operationstrawbarry]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

Bottom Line:

There is always 2 sides to a story. All opinions are correct (In many cases), but the fact is, you can still get arrested for assisting to help someone suicide if they wanted you're help. Its still considered murder but in an assistant lv. So its a loose loose situation. Wheather you think its acceptable or not, you will still be helping to take a life away and it just depends if you can either get away with it or if you could suffer through feeling guilty about taking someone's life away. This all changes if its a direct order from a high authority (not god), or if there is permisson. If not, then the morality is a lot more complex and its wheather you want to cope with the results at the end. I would never assist someone to suicide and even if I had permission, I would never do it.

my 2cent.

[devonin]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

Lol. Lets put it this way. Who wants suicide?

People who feel that death is preferable to their current standard of life. People with clinical depression that gets too severe or goes unmedicated, people suffering from painful terminal illness, people facing the liklihood of brain death. There are people, and not just crazy people. Personally if there were a legal way to assert such, I would leave instructions with my family to euthenize me in the event that I suffered permanant loss of brain function. I don't think I'm sick, I don't think I'm crazy, I don't think there is anything hateful or loathesome about wanting to avoid that situation.

my grandmother never wanted to commit suicide, and she has lived with it for a long time now.

So? One anecdotal case doesn't prove or disprove anything. You aren't your grandmother, I'm not you're grandmother. Neither of us can -guarentee- that we would react in that situation in the same way your grandmother did. Perhaps she has a strong will, perhaps she believes that suicide will damn her to hell, I don't know, because I don't know her or her beliefs. But one case doesn't prove the whole.

[Izzi]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

I think people should have the right to end their own life if they are in their right state of mind. Shouldn't be an option under the influence of drugs or alcohol though. If anyones read the giver that had an interesting way of letting people do that.

[Lipidman]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

But is it enough to justify your motives to only yourself? Someone who murders having completely justified the act in their own mind are still held accountable by the existing laws against murder, unless their reasoning happens to coincide with the accepted justifications (Self-defense etc)

But is that really a fair comparison? You're life is your own, but murder is taking the life of someone else, that which isn't yours to claim.

[devonin]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

The defense was "I can justify my motives to myself, which should make it acceptable" and I simply pointed out "You can justify all kinds of things to yourself, which doesn't make them acceptable, why should this be an exception?"

I was waiting for a response from Tsugo that never came.

I have no fundamental problem with people killing themselves as long as by so doing they aren't screwing over any dependants.

[devonin]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

Except I mean it in the literal official sense. I could care less if your suicide makes your best friend really sad. What I care about is if you have a child who is financially dependant on you for survival etc.

When I say "A dependant" I mean it in the sense of "Depends on you for having their basic life necessaties met" If someone is going to starve, or become homeless because you killed yourself, I have a problem with it. If they just care about you a lot, that's your decision to inflict it on them or not.

[Lipidman]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

The defense was "I can justify my motives to myself, which should make it acceptable" and I simply pointed out "You can justify all kinds of things to yourself, which doesn't make them acceptable, why should this be an exception?"

But you're generalising what was said which was intended to be exclusive in the first place. In this case, some people believe that suicide is an exception in which self-justification is all that really matters.

[Zythus]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

I understand what you mean, however you don't think love and affection is a necessity?

Let's say you're a teenager who committed suicide. Although you may be right that economical necessaties probably won't be affected, but emotional necessities will definitely be inflicted. For example, If you had a younger brother or sister, it could be traumatic. They might have to go into psychological therapy, and they might never be the same way again. Is that okay with you, as long as you think you made the right decision for yourself regardless of the people around you?

I believe this was discussed in the last two pages. Devonin said basic life necessities met, and I would agree. People who are affected emotionally by a suicided friend or family, it is their weakness. They cast grief upon themselves, its not justified to blame the suicider for his/her actions because it is his/her life. They justified to themselves that suicide is honorable or as eventuality, and so be it.

Humans have such wasted empathy, especially love.

[devonin]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

As long as everybody involved in something is a consenting adult in sound mind, I support the right of those people to do absolutely anything they want. That certainly extends to killing themselves.

Though as I said, if you are the sole provider for dependants who would suddenly lack in basic necessities of life (And no, love is not a necessity to be blunt) those are people who are involved in your decision, and being not consenting adults in sound mind, mean that you don't have the right to do it. If no such other people exist, knock yourself out, as it were.

[Das Mustafah]

Re: Acceptable Suicide?

That certainly extends to killing themselves.

lol cuz ur canada

I think that legally the results of the subconscious can be considered not to be the will of the individual, like those people who go crazy and kill people and don't go to jail for it.

OP, I'm guessing you're talking about moral accountability since you didn't mention anything about legal issues.

Personally I find suicide to rarely be a well thought out and rationally considered option, like when people kill themselves over money matters or other (to me) trivial things like interpersonal relationships.

Kill yourself because your wife or child died and I'll understand. Kill yourself because people make fun of you or you're broke, and I'll scorn you. Kill yourself because you're chemically imbalanced or otherwise mentally ill (or maybe physically), and I'll be intrigued.