VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

[Arch0wl]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

tps222

did you read my reply, whatsoever

even so much as the bold text

did you

yes or no question

[Tps222]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Yes, that's why I addressed the "illegality" argument as well as the absurd exaggeration part.

We have innocent kids being detained and sexually abused in immigration camps, but no, fucking David Horowitz's foundation being blocked by credit card companies is truly the worst thing to happen in America all year, because of the precedent, right? lmao get real.

[Arch0wl]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

jesus christ you actually buy your own delusion.

you are the reason the "one death is a tragedy" quote even exists, because you are focusing on melodramatic news tragedies and refusing to see the larger picture. the idea of a precedent being used to chill political speech is something not-real to you. this should be immensely concerning to you but somehow it is not.

the precedent is immensely worse and has far more reverbertions than a few hundred people. this has nothing to do with the horowitz center, and for me to even need to clarify this means you have not put even the most token effort in understanding why this is important. independent of the center (<-- read) it sets a precedent for how commerce can be used applied to speech across the country, and sets the tone for political disagreements for years to come. yes, this matters more. actually. in-reality. really. profoundly more. you are wrong for thinking otherwise, and not just kind-of wrong, but the kind of wrong that gets put alongside lamarckian evolution and other "wow, I'm glad history never gave a shit about that" viewpoints.

[mellonxcollie]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

the precedent is immensely worse and has far more reverbertions than a few hundred people. it sets a precedent for how commerce can be used applied to speech across the country, and sets the tone for political disagreements for years to come. yes, this matters more. actually. in-reality. really. profoundly more. you are wrong for thinking otherwise, and not just kind-of wrong, but the kind of wrong that gets put alongside lamarckian evolution and other "wow, I'm clearly glad history never gave a shit about that" viewpoints.

Lmao

[Arch0wl]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

We have innocent kids being detained and sexually abused in immigration camps

taken to its logical extreme you would shred a right to public education or constitutional rights or any other civil liberty of this kind to stop human trafficking or any other small-picture tragedy

what is so bothersome about this is not that it's wrong

it's that the wrongness is so easily gotten to if you would just think about it

this is the cognitive equivalent of watching a whole TV show because you're too lazy to pick up the remote

you are smart

how the fuck do you justify this crap yourself

[Funnygurl555]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

alfred's not wrong here guys lol

okay mayyybee with the "this is the worst thing all year" that might be a bit of an exaggeration. but this shit is dangerous. whether the horowitz center is a bunch of jerks or not isn't the issue

weren't you all mad when some baker said it was his constitutional right not to make a cake for a gay couple? no matter how you see it, if you boil the stories down to their essence they're the same deal

also i love y'all so please stop this isn't tgb don't gotta spread the hate into chit chat
sayin' this to everyone
you can argue w/o being mad
spread the love

[DaBackpack]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

I can't wait to find out what crucial piece of information is selectively being omitted from this scenario to artificially spark outrage

[Arch0wl]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

I can't wait to find out what crucial piece of information is selectively being omitted from this scenario to artificially spark outrage

your concern is in the right place. the horowitz organization is undoubtedly leaving something out, so it's a question of what.

I want it to be bullshit, because then that's one less thing to worry about

paypal's actions are concerning, but ultimately, you can start a competitor to paypal. it is difficult, but it exists.

for VISA/mastercard there is very little alternative. both go through merchant services. starting a new alternative is similar to starting a new ISP.

the actual nature of the organization is unrelated. VISA could block the SPLC itself and this would still be a big deal. mccarthism was bad when applied to communists, and it's bad when applied to the opposite of communists.

what I suspect will happen is that horowitz will have to sue the organization in a similar way to how the SPLC was sued for defamation, and this will have to happen a fuckton more times, and then this shit will stop.

but it's unreal that people here think in the universe they thought existed it was okay for VISA to selectively block payment to organizations based on speech. what the fuck.

[choof]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

something someyhi g slipery slope falachie

[choof]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

oh yeah depending on the merchant service that horowitz is using they may be getting browned out due to lack of pci compliance

[Arch0wl]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

something someyhi g slipery slope falachie

that's a fair criticism to make, because I know where you are coming from

but the slippery slope fallacy is causal, not categorical. i.e. "if gays get married, then snakes will get married to people." the precedent does not allow for the cause of gay marriage --> snake marriage.

however, it is justifiable to say something like "if we accept that dwarf planets like pluto can be exploded by the Death Star for fun, it's not a stretch to explode the whole solar system" because the planet category can be stretched, it's not jumping from cause to cause.

here, "hate group" is vague, so anything can be defined as a hate group, or the category can be re-defined later on once the group defining it is no longer in power. muslim groups were targeted unfairly post-9/11, and black groups during the civil rights era, and so on. you cannot predict what group will be undesirable next and it is immensely arrogant to think you are invulnerable. (I don't mean you = choof, but you = hypothetical person.)

this is super dry and boring, but it's roughly how the fallacy works and it's the best I can do in a pinch.

[choof]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

yes but what if pluto was filled with a bunch of white supremacists who'd have no issue death starring a multicultural planet

[Arch0wl]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

omg

[choof]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

lmao

[DaBackpack]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

if that's true, we cannot keep accepting complaints at face value, and this whole system of "trust people's complaints first" is a glaring vulnerability that threatens the integrity of information as a whole.

I kind of agree with this sentiment -- situationally

For me it boils down to power dynamics: institutions with more power have a disproportionate amount of influence when it comes to... well, a lot of things. YouTube in particular has a similar kind of problem, where content creators get flagged whenever they portray certain IPs in a negative light, regardless of whether or not Fair Use is invoked. The ones that flag the videos (the "complainers" in this case) almost exclusively win these fights because YouTube just automatically sides with the flagging party, regardless of context -- this is, more or less, because the flagging party tends to have more power: they're executives, back by legal teams, etc.

Sure, free market and blah blah, but "with great power comes great responsibility" -- and, obviously, Visa/Mastercard have a lot of power.

With that said.

That doesn't vindicate Horowitz in this kind of case --- I'm pretty sure there's something we're not privy to at the moment, some subtlety that justifies whatever is going on here. Perhaps the complaints were legitimate, perhaps Visa/Mastercard already have performed an investigation, whatever. I have the feeling that something like this doesn't "just happen" arbitrarily, especially at these higher tiers of corporation (compared against the bakery situation, which was rather arbitrary, occurring a low corporate level).