VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

[rayword45]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Yes, I'm fine with word shit thrown at him aka freedom of speech
Not deplatforming actions aka not words

But you just said "No I meant the deplatforming" in response to my incredulity that you'd compare the "harassment" on this site to that he incited.

What is it you meant I'm confused

Edit: unrelated but I actually do miss archowl posting on this website he was an inadvertently funnigui

[Funnygurl555]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Edit: unrelated but I actually do miss archowl posting on this website he was an inadvertently funnigui

#freearch0wl

[melonpapes]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

#freearch0wl

he was a good boi he dindu nuffin

[melonpapes]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

i would like to say that the last post was just a joke ok

[the sun fan]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

lmao, regardless of what you believe the consequences of free speech are, someone is definitely NOT allowed to say "Hey I don't like this [person, family or group of people]. Here is their address, go bother them if you like me."

That's not a fucking consequence of free speech. Its despicable is what it is.

He's not allowed to say that as "free speech."

Like it or not, corporations are allowed to deny someone service for any reason or no reason at all. Like devonin said, any corporation that denies Alex Jones or any person/group of people service because they don't like his/her/their ideas can currently do so in the United States. That's how it is currently.

They, however, are NOT stripping him of his freedom of speech. Again, like devonin said, no one is saying that Alex Jones cannot and should not be able to say pretty much whatever he wants in America. But a corporation, using the very same right to freedom of speech, is allowed to say that they do not wish to provides services to someone for their opinions. Whether it is broadcasted to millions of people or shouted at people passing through an intersection off a highway exit, he is still allowed to say whatever the hell he wants. He just is being denied service as a result of the decision of corporations.

If you don't like it, do what you've done here. Talk about it. Make these corporations come to regret their decision by talking with your wallets. That's how this nation works, again, like it or not. That will get Visa/whoever else to change their minds, be it about Alex Jones or the Horowitz Center or the estate of Phyllis Schlafly.

But do me and every other reasonable person a favor and don't accept what Alex Jones said as a necessary cost of freedom of speech. Its not ok what he has spaid wrt harassing families of Sandy Hook victims.

No one is saying don't punish the people threatening these families. From what I understand, at least one person has been punished. But you cannot seriously begin to tell me that these families would be harassed without Alex Jones telling them to go harass these families.

If I convince you to steal a car, I am partially responsible for that car being stolen, both ethically and wrt the law. That car would not have been stolen without me convincing you to steal it.

The Rwandan genocide wouldn't have happened (at least, to the extent that lives were lost, I accept and acknowledge that this is complicated and that I am simplifying it down here) without radio stations in Rwanda (and I think also in surrounding countries but I'm not sure and I rarely look things up when making posts because laziness) talking about the "Tutsi cockroaches polluting the nation." Many of the people in charge or running these radio stations, or in charge of broadcasting, were charged with crimes against humanity afterwords, I believe.

Hundreds of thousands of people might be alive if not for those broadcasts.

I understand that the comparison here is a little bit grave. I do not mean to directly compare these two beyond showing how something that someone/a group of people said can lead to horrible tragedy.

What Alex Jones has advocated is, in my opinion, despicable. It is a crime not directly comparable to incitation of genocide, but it is horrible. People are being harassed because some dumbfuck hopelessly delusional people believe that the families of the victims of Sandy Hook are crisis actors. You will never, ever be able to convince me that these people, who have had to move something like over 5 times since 2014 due to harassment in one instance, should suffer just so Alex Jones can continue to advocate that they be harassed because of his... knowingly false accusation that the incident in question did not actually happen. Its not ok. That's not what freedom of speech is about.

[tosh]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Edit: unrelated but I actually do miss archowl posting on this website he was an inadvertently funnigui

Funnygurl is practically posting for him at this point, so I'm not sure he's really actually "gone".

[melonpapes]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Funnygurl is practically posting for him at this point, so I'm not sure he's really actually "gone".

funnyguy

[Funnygurl555]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

I'm not!

This sockpuppeting shit legitimately annoys me

[gold stinger]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

I believe a good example of what I see when people debate whether or not companies have the right to allow customers free speech or not on their services, is equivalent to how any place that involves service can freely decline said service to an individual.

e.x.
My co-worker was a dick to the Tim Hortons (Canadian coffee chain I know) that was in the same building as us.
My co-worker is now 100% denied service from Tim Hortons (he can't buy anything from them, and they actively ignore him outside of work)
My co-worker, in retaliation, 100% denies service at the gas station for Tim Hortons employees

This is legal, and happened for months before Tim Hortons decided to start accepting him again and then immediately began refusing again after a week when he continued being an ass.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Aquellex]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

"As you can see, National Socialism, AKA 'Nazism', is socialism."
"So, the Nazis were socialists?"
"Yes."
"What do you do to stop Nazis?"
"I advocate for their platforming so people can form their own conclusion."
"And socialists?"
"I want them driven from academia."

[rayword45]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

^now THATS some good sockpuppeting except you forgot the word "defund"

[melonpapes]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

"As you can see, National Socialism, AKA 'Nazism', is socialism."
"So, the Nazis were socialists?"
"Yes."
"What do you do to stop Nazis?"
"I advocate for their platforming so people can form their own conclusion."
"And socialists?"
"I want them driven from academia."

you forgot that anything right of left leaning is practically already driven from academia already but funny post i like it

[aperson]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

you forgot that anything right of left leaning is practically already driven from academia already but funny post i like it

[citation needed]

[melonpapes]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

[citation needed]

sorry i don't have a nationwide statistic sheet to get the empirical data on campus political opinions. i'm sure we could smack down a lot of the claims in this thread with a cute lil request for more data.
However, theres information suggesting at least in the way of educators and professors, conservative professors are outnumbered 12:1.

In all, we looked up 7,243 professors and found 3,623 to be registered Democratic
and 314 Republican.7 The overall D:R ratio is 11.5 to 1.

Do you think many students feel safe "ruffling feathers" with those in authority with opposing viewpoints? I think most likely they will stifle their true feelings and opinions during class discussions for the sake of their education and maybe even safety and to save them from the embarrassment of being the "odd one out" in lecture hall.


Theres also this:

I once saw an adjunct not get his contract renewed after students complained that he exposed them to "offensive" texts written by Edward Said and Mark Twain. His response, that the texts were meant to be a little upsetting, only fueled the students' ire and sealed his fate. That was enough to get me to comb through my syllabi and cut out anything I could see upsetting a coddled undergrad, texts ranging from Upton Sinclair to Maureen Tkacik — and I wasn't the only one who made adjustments, either.

This shift in student-teacher dynamic placed many of the traditional goals of higher education — such as having students challenge their beliefs — off limits. While I used to pride myself on getting students to question themselves and engage with difficult concepts and texts, I now hesitate.

So, at least one professor has had to alter the way he exposes students to "difficult" ideas and having them rationalize their feelings on these texts and ideas themselves, for the fear that he might lose tenure or otherwise come upon negative consequence. Something tells me a lot of these ideas that are being described as "difficult" probably come from a right leaning camp.

No one can rebut feelings, and so the only thing left to do is shut down the things that cause distress — no argument, no discussion, just hit the mute button and pretend eliminating discomfort is the same as effecting actual change.

https://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid

though its not hard to look at any of the large "campus activism" movements that have sprung up in the past 8-10 years and imagine why it might be hard, scary, or risky to express these viewpoints when there are swaths of people on the other side who show no qualms in doxxing you or causing trouble with your employer or school ethics board over your opinions.


maybe we should stop treating students like customers that pay 10s of thousands of dollars per year for the right to not be offended. maybe we should fix the system where teachers are afraid to teach effectively because of fear of losing their jobs in a "brutal" job market where they can be replaced with someone who won't cause trouble hurting the feelings of the schools cash cows? but thats another thread i guess.. lol

[melonpapes]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

BIG POST