VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

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  • Arch0wl
    Banned
    FFR Simfile Author
    • Dec 2002
    • 6344

    #31
    Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

    to break from the tone of the first page for a second:

    thank you, backpack, for taking the time to read this and comment thoughtfully. I appreciate it.

    Comment

    • DaBackpack
      ~ お ま ん こ ~
      • Mar 2014
      • 918

      #32
      Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

      Originally posted by Funnygurl555

      weren't you all mad when some baker said it was his constitutional right not to make a cake for a gay couple? no matter how you see it, if you boil the stories down to their essence they're the same deal
      I think this is a false equivalence but yeah

      If I can give my two cents on a larger matter.

      I think there are just some situations that are impossible to reconcile in a logically consistent manner. The government emboldening these hate groups hurts the civil liberties of others. The government denying these hate groups -potentially- hurts free speech. Is there a middle ground? Probably, but I sincerely doubt that any concessions made will result in a logically consistent system.

      As a specific example:

      I've started to think that sexual assault cases are fundamentally incompatible with the current legal system (or, at the very least, the legal system's reliance on forensic science). Somewhat axiomatic in forensic science is "Locard's Exchange Principle", which states that any two bodies that come in contact leave trace evidence of the contact. This is remarkably difficult to apply in sexual assault cases for obvious reasons. Rape kits are unreliable, and other trace evidence is difficult to prove "beyond a shadow of a reasonable doubt".

      And yet, a fundamental principle of law is that defendants are innocent until proven guilty.

      I've been thinking for a while that something's gotta give here. Should there be a different protocol for handling sexual assault cases? Maybe. It just seems as if the legal system is inherently contradictory sometimes. "Justice for the victims" and "innocent until proven guilty" can sometimes be diametrically opposed.

      Coming back to this example:

      There is a philosophical incompatibility with "securing the civil liberties of Americans" and "free speech." That's why the meaning of free speech has changed over history -- we now know that you can't incite violence, directly endanger others, etc. So I would imagine that in cases like this, censoring hate groups might be a thing that happens. It -does-, strictly speaking, violate free speech, but it instead values "civil liberties" for historically oppressed groups.

      I know Arch is more well-versed in law than I am and he probably won't like this answer, but, I wholeheartedly believe that philosophical incompatibilities exist, and, through some means, we as a society dictate what values are more valuable than others.


      Originally posted by Moogy
      no one cares
      Originally posted by TWG Dan Hedgehog
      there are 743 matches for hedgehog suicide on deviantart
      that's kind of a sad statistic

      Comment

      • DaBackpack
        ~ お ま ん こ ~
        • Mar 2014
        • 918

        #33
        Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

        If it helps contextualize my responses, my background is in mathematics and formal logics.


        Originally posted by Moogy
        no one cares
        Originally posted by TWG Dan Hedgehog
        there are 743 matches for hedgehog suicide on deviantart
        that's kind of a sad statistic

        Comment

        • Arch0wl
          Banned
          FFR Simfile Author
          • Dec 2002
          • 6344

          #34
          Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

          the sexual assault thing is an interesting side-discussion and if you post it in a separate thread I am more than willing to have that argument. you're a good interlocutor so I wouldn't mind.

          I do have one comment to make here though:

          we now know that you can't incite violence, directly endanger others, etc. So I would imagine that in cases like this, censoring hate groups might be a thing that happens. It -does-, strictly speaking, violate free speech, but it instead values "civil liberties" for historically oppressed groups.
          there is some writing about this worth reading:

          1. most important: https://freespeechdebate.com/case/th...t-to-violence/
          2. important: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rst-amendment/
          3. less important, but still good: https://www.theatlantic.com/national...-quote/264449/

          Comment

          • SKG_Scintill
            Spun a twirly fruitcake,
            FFR Simfile Author
            • Feb 2009
            • 3876

            #35
            Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

            I'm kind of bothered by the amount of people who are for taking down opinions they don't agree with
            Let people believe and think what they want to, diversity in thought keeps humanity thinking
            It's not they their fault if you're too stupid to give counterarguments
            Resorting to filthy backhanded tactics that graze the edges of the law is disgusting





            Originally posted by bluguerilla
            So Sexy Robotnik (SKG_Scintill) {.0001/10} [--]
            ___
            . RHYTHMS PR LAYERING
            . ZOMG I HAD TO QUIT OUT TERRIBLE
            .

            Comment

            • komochii
              Banned
              • May 2018
              • 224

              #36
              Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

              I'm bothered by the amount of people who think a meaningful discussion can even arise from the assholes on this site

              Oh wait the point isn't convo it's for everyone to stroke their egos

              Comment

              • DaBackpack
                ~ お ま ん こ ~
                • Mar 2014
                • 918

                #37
                Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

                Originally posted by komochii
                I'm bothered by the amount of people who think a meaningful discussion can even arise from the assholes on this site

                Oh wait the point isn't convo it's for everyone to stroke their egos
                ok bye


                Originally posted by Moogy
                no one cares
                Originally posted by TWG Dan Hedgehog
                there are 743 matches for hedgehog suicide on deviantart
                that's kind of a sad statistic

                Comment

                • komochii
                  Banned
                  • May 2018
                  • 224

                  #38
                  Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

                  Oh wow everyone agrees with me on "insert moral dilemma here that has obvious solution and implications" someone debate me.LOL JK I just wanted to tell u all how right I am xD

                  Plot twist none of you are smart, none of you are nice, everything anyone has said in any thread has been repeated from things that have already been said

                  Comment

                  • komochii
                    Banned
                    • May 2018
                    • 224

                    #39
                    Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

                    Originally posted by DaBackpack
                    ok bye
                    If it helps contexualize my responses my background is dealing with pompous assholes

                    Comment

                    • komochii
                      Banned
                      • May 2018
                      • 224

                      #40
                      Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

                      Ya bye see ya nerd

                      Comment

                      • Charu
                        Snivy! Dohoho!
                        FFR Simfile Author
                        • Mar 2006
                        • 6206

                        #41
                        Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

                        Jesus

                        If I wanted to read someone belittling everyone on the site for being "wrong" about something, then I'd just go to GameFAQs or something...


                        Originally posted by JohnRedWolf87
                        Charu the red-nosed Snivy
                        Had a very shiny nose
                        And if you ever saw it
                        You could even say it glows

                        All of the other Snivies
                        Used to laugh and call him names
                        They never let poor Charu
                        Join in any Snivy games

                        (Click the arrow to see the rest)


                        Originally posted by Vendetta21
                        All in all I would say that Charu not only won this game, his play made me reconsider how I play it.

                        Comment

                        • Funnygurl555
                          T-Force's Rival
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 1865

                          #42
                          Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

                          i wonder why komochii's so angry
                          Originally posted by MixMasterLar
                          is funny eaman?
                          Can you like not use those stupid names right now? Took me long enough to get these screen names straight in my head
                          Originally posted by the sun fan
                          GET DUNKED FUNNY
                          (eaman is her name irl, friend)

                          Comment

                          • Charu
                            Snivy! Dohoho!
                            FFR Simfile Author
                            • Mar 2006
                            • 6206

                            #43
                            Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

                            Well okay, not "everyone". Just two people.

                            Still though


                            Originally posted by JohnRedWolf87
                            Charu the red-nosed Snivy
                            Had a very shiny nose
                            And if you ever saw it
                            You could even say it glows

                            All of the other Snivies
                            Used to laugh and call him names
                            They never let poor Charu
                            Join in any Snivy games

                            (Click the arrow to see the rest)


                            Originally posted by Vendetta21
                            All in all I would say that Charu not only won this game, his play made me reconsider how I play it.

                            Comment

                            • Charu
                              Snivy! Dohoho!
                              FFR Simfile Author
                              • Mar 2006
                              • 6206

                              #44
                              Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

                              Originally posted by Funnygurl555
                              i wonder why komochii's so angry
                              Got blocked by VISA/Mastercard probably.


                              Originally posted by JohnRedWolf87
                              Charu the red-nosed Snivy
                              Had a very shiny nose
                              And if you ever saw it
                              You could even say it glows

                              All of the other Snivies
                              Used to laugh and call him names
                              They never let poor Charu
                              Join in any Snivy games

                              (Click the arrow to see the rest)


                              Originally posted by Vendetta21
                              All in all I would say that Charu not only won this game, his play made me reconsider how I play it.

                              Comment

                              • Charu
                                Snivy! Dohoho!
                                FFR Simfile Author
                                • Mar 2006
                                • 6206

                                #45
                                Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

                                Boom, gottem~~~


                                Originally posted by JohnRedWolf87
                                Charu the red-nosed Snivy
                                Had a very shiny nose
                                And if you ever saw it
                                You could even say it glows

                                All of the other Snivies
                                Used to laugh and call him names
                                They never let poor Charu
                                Join in any Snivy games

                                (Click the arrow to see the rest)


                                Originally posted by Vendetta21
                                All in all I would say that Charu not only won this game, his play made me reconsider how I play it.

                                Comment

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