VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

[Arch0wl]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

to break from the tone of the first page for a second:

thank you, backpack, for taking the time to read this and comment thoughtfully. I appreciate it.

[DaBackpack]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

weren't you all mad when some baker said it was his constitutional right not to make a cake for a gay couple? no matter how you see it, if you boil the stories down to their essence they're the same deal

I think this is a false equivalence but yeah

If I can give my two cents on a larger matter.

I think there are just some situations that are impossible to reconcile in a logically consistent manner. The government emboldening these hate groups hurts the civil liberties of others. The government denying these hate groups -potentially- hurts free speech. Is there a middle ground? Probably, but I sincerely doubt that any concessions made will result in a logically consistent system.

As a specific example:

I've started to think that sexual assault cases are fundamentally incompatible with the current legal system (or, at the very least, the legal system's reliance on forensic science). Somewhat axiomatic in forensic science is "Locard's Exchange Principle", which states that any two bodies that come in contact leave trace evidence of the contact. This is remarkably difficult to apply in sexual assault cases for obvious reasons. Rape kits are unreliable, and other trace evidence is difficult to prove "beyond a shadow of a reasonable doubt".

And yet, a fundamental principle of law is that defendants are innocent until proven guilty.

I've been thinking for a while that something's gotta give here. Should there be a different protocol for handling sexual assault cases? Maybe. It just seems as if the legal system is inherently contradictory sometimes. "Justice for the victims" and "innocent until proven guilty" can sometimes be diametrically opposed.

Coming back to this example:

There is a philosophical incompatibility with "securing the civil liberties of Americans" and "free speech." That's why the meaning of free speech has changed over history -- we now know that you can't incite violence, directly endanger others, etc. So I would imagine that in cases like this, censoring hate groups might be a thing that happens. It -does-, strictly speaking, violate free speech, but it instead values "civil liberties" for historically oppressed groups.

I know Arch is more well-versed in law than I am and he probably won't like this answer, but, I wholeheartedly believe that philosophical incompatibilities exist, and, through some means, we as a society dictate what values are more valuable than others.

[DaBackpack]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

If it helps contextualize my responses, my background is in mathematics and formal logics.

[Arch0wl]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

the sexual assault thing is an interesting side-discussion and if you post it in a separate thread I am more than willing to have that argument. you're a good interlocutor so I wouldn't mind.

I do have one comment to make here though:

we now know that you can't incite violence, directly endanger others, etc. So I would imagine that in cases like this, censoring hate groups might be a thing that happens. It -does-, strictly speaking, violate free speech, but it instead values "civil liberties" for historically oppressed groups.

there is some writing about this worth reading:

1. most important: https://freespeechdebate.com/case/th...t-to-violence/
2. important: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rst-amendment/
3. less important, but still good: https://www.theatlantic.com/national...-quote/264449/

[SKG_Scintill]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

I'm kind of bothered by the amount of people who are for taking down opinions they don't agree with
Let people believe and think what they want to, diversity in thought keeps humanity thinking
It's not they their fault if you're too stupid to give counterarguments
Resorting to filthy backhanded tactics that graze the edges of the law is disgusting

[komochii]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

I'm bothered by the amount of people who think a meaningful discussion can even arise from the assholes on this site

Oh wait the point isn't convo it's for everyone to stroke their egos

[DaBackpack]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

I'm bothered by the amount of people who think a meaningful discussion can even arise from the assholes on this site

Oh wait the point isn't convo it's for everyone to stroke their egos

ok bye

[komochii]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Oh wow everyone agrees with me on "insert moral dilemma here that has obvious solution and implications" someone debate me.LOL JK I just wanted to tell u all how right I am xD

Plot twist none of you are smart, none of you are nice, everything anyone has said in any thread has been repeated from things that have already been said

[komochii]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

ok bye

If it helps contexualize my responses my background is dealing with pompous assholes

[komochii]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Ya bye see ya nerd

[Charu]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Jesus

If I wanted to read someone belittling everyone on the site for being "wrong" about something, then I'd just go to GameFAQs or something...

[Funnygurl555]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

i wonder why komochii's so angry

[Charu]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Well okay, not "everyone". Just two people.

Still though

[Charu]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

i wonder why komochii's so angry

Got blocked by VISA/Mastercard probably.

[Charu]

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Boom, gottem~~~