MapleStory

[ckj846]

Re: MapleStory

Well we have crap HP, but pretty good damage/support, strafe, rain, puppet, hawk, MB. Explain how archers blow compared to every other class please.

I think afro pretty much explained it. Archers level extremely slow, extremely fragile, weak, and useless in parties. How does that not explain everything? Every other class stands out in one area of the game except for archers.

O_o

[Fimbulvetr]

Re: MapleStory

I think afro pretty much explained it. Archers level extremely slow, extremely fragile, weak, and useless in parties. How does that not explain everything? Every other class stands out in one area of the game except for archers.

O_o

I am a ranger myself- lv 83 now.

I get 20% at a minimum an hour after learning how to train at squids at maximum efficiency, which is faster than most other classes at 8x, sans priests at himes of course. In a party, archers can do single (around the same as hermits) and both close and ranged mob damage (higher than those mages), which is more than a hermit/mage/warrior can do alone.

Personally, I don't ever die at 2HKO monsters unless I'm getting heavy lag/talking, but you shouldn't be talking much during serious training anyways.

"Insane? I would guess that it's not much ahead of Mage's single target DPS"

Lets take I/L mages 3rd job, with TS as their strongest skill, dealing maybe 15k to vikings at lv 100-11x. On the other hand, an archer does ~ the same damage, while attacking twice as fast...point made...and with more range as well.

I can hit a bit over 17k max at lv 83 (normal build)...no mage is going to do that much single target damage unless they have like perfect equips

Your priest comment about damage is obviously biased, since you're a bishop yourself, an extremely funded one at that too.

8k damage on SRs may sound good, but you need to be lukless and heavily funded (being in the top 20 in GMS is definitely a good basis for average priest damage) to do that, and include the fact that SR is pretty slow.

If I had max rain, with a range fo 12xxx-2202, at 83, I would have a max damage of 5725 with rain (which would be ~ high 4kish? to dreamy ghosts if I was their level) at a much faster rate than you could SR. Once I hit 11x, I would be hitting up ~7k damage at a much higher speed than a priest ever could (and would not have to rely on MG/using the time to heal).



About "That are both weak. I once partied an Archer 50 levels higher than me and I was killing faster than him."

No shiet, you're a bishop that can use the strongest AoE in the game +elemental advantage...

"Mortal Blow? Has a chance of failing even when maxed, is weak compared to what the shot would be if it was fired "correctly" from a range, and even the benefit of the 1hk effect is far from absolute as well."

It's not supposed to be an attack skill, it just lets us do a bit more damage by shooting a "close range arrow blow with a chance to OHKO" simply put, instead of a bow whack.

[Afrobean]

Re: MapleStory

I get 20% at a minimum an hour after learning how to train at squids at maximum efficiency, which is faster than most other classes at 8x, sans priests at himes of course. In a party, archers can do single (around the same as hermits) and both close and ranged mob damage (higher than those mages), which is more than a hermit/mage/warrior can do alone.

Point to notice here:

You think that Archers deal around as much DPS as Hermits.

Anyone who knows anything about Hermits knows that this is not right.

"Insane? I would guess that it's not much ahead of Mage's single target DPS"

Lets take I/L mages 3rd job, with TS as their strongest skill, dealing maybe 15k to vikings at lv 100-11x. On the other hand, an archer does ~ the same damage, while attacking twice as fast...point made...and with more range as well.

Mages are well known for having weak single target damage.

In addition, Thunderspear is the weakest DPS of the third job single target attacks.

On top of this, Mage's have higher real DPS due to being MASSIVELY more mobile. Ice Mages also are made more worthwhile with their freazing AoE, and as for Fire Mages, they have infinite potential for DPS using Mist (the only thing limiting how much DPS that Poison Mist can do is what maps/monsters are available).

I can hit a bit over 17k max at lv 83 (normal build)...no mage is going to do that much single target damage unless they have like perfect equips

17k max with a min of ~5.1k, making for an average of ~11k. Factor in lack of mobility and you'll see that Archers aren't far from Mage's single target DPS. A few thousand more DPS, which is what I meant when I said "it's not much ahead of Mage's single target DPS." They have better single target damage, but it's not a whole lot better.

Your priest comment about damage is obviously biased, since you're a bishop yourself, an extremely funded one at that too.

Even a fairly typical Priest would hit 6~7k per instead of my 8k.

8k damage on SRs may sound good, but you need to be lukless and heavily funded (being in the top 20 in GMS is definitely a good basis for average priest damage) to do that, and include the fact that SR is pretty slow.

Again, a typical priest would only be a little less. You see, Magicians have relatively low, but stable damage that isn't heavily influenced by gear. In addition, being lukless means nothing other than that it's a little bit cheaper for some gear. Take a look at the top Magician ranks and notice how many of them aren't lukless at all (I'll give you a hint: a large portion of the top 5~10 are luk).

And as for SR, it's about once per second. Combine this with teleport and you'll see that a good Priest that knows what they're doing is going to clear Dreamies faster than just about anyone (the only one who would stand a very good change in my opinion would be a VERY skillful Hermit who can throw Avengers just right to pull mobs in such a way as to pull mobs without punching often).

Oh and then there's Dragon, which will be hitting about the same as SR to one monster every 3 seconds. A constant spamming of SR to 6 things with Dragon out allows for what is essentially 19 hits per 3 seconds, which is about .06 of a hit added into each hit of SR. So if I'm hitting 8k SR, then counting Dragon's damage into that would be like hitting ~8.5k. But that's if I was hitting 6 things at once for 3 seconds. The effect of Dragon becomes more profound as less monsters are hit. For example, if I hit 1 monster with SR for 8k, adding in Dragon's DPS to it makes it ~10.7k. So basically, depending on how many monsters you hit during the duration of the 3 second delay of Dragon, it's like your SR would be hitting somewhere between an additional .5k ~ 2.7k.

If I had max rain, with a range fo 12xxx-2202, at 83, I would have a max damage of 5725 with rain (which would be ~ high 4kish? to dreamy ghosts if I was their level) at a much faster rate than you could SR. Once I hit 11x, I would be hitting up ~7k damage at a much higher speed than a priest ever could (and would not have to rely on MG/using the time to heal).

Faster cast rate perhaps, but you would not be able to command the map as effectively (especially if you're in a party). Your mobs would be smaller and you'd be unable to move effectively among them. Also: I know that ~100 casts per minute is the fastest of all in the game (Heal and L7), so I don't see how you could possibly be at that much faster of a rate in reality. More than 60 casts per minute, yet less than 100 casts per minute.

Also: relying on MG is not a bad thing. It's actually-- gasp-- cheaper to pot MG'd MP than it is to heal HP with normal HP pots.

About "That are both weak. I once partied an Archer 50 levels higher than me and I was killing faster than him."

No shiet, you're a bishop that can use the strongest AoE in the game +elemental advantage...

Shining Ray is the "strongest AoE in the game [plus] elemental advantage"? I was referring to partying a 150+ Archer back when I was 11x, before 4th job was even out. I was noticeably outkilling this Archer who was a great deal higher level than me, and I was only using SR and Dragon to do so.

"Mortal Blow? Has a chance of failing even when maxed, is weak compared to what the shot would be if it was fired "correctly" from a range, and even the benefit of the 1hk effect is far from absolute as well."

It's not supposed to be an attack skill, it just lets us do a bit more damage by shooting a "close range arrow blow with a chance to OHKO" simply put, instead of a bow whack.

I'm aware of that, but my point was that Squeek's comment of "a skill that allows them to shoot close-range" wasn't really right.

[Squeek]

Re: MapleStory

Afro:

Ever played an archer to third job?

Just curious, because I don't even want to bother reading all that **** if you haven't.

[tsugomaru]

Re: MapleStory

I can speak a lot about lit mages and fire mages even though I've never played either class and I'm sure you can too.

~Tsugomaru

[Squeek]

Re: MapleStory

Yeah, but my point is that all of this is relative.

Personally I don't care about damage and that sort of thing. My main wouldn't be a Cleric if I did. I just think Archers are the most fun class in this game. They get more attacking skills than any other class and they take more strategy than any other class.

[Afrobean]

Re: MapleStory

Yeah, but my point is that all of this is relative.

Personally I don't care about damage and that sort of thing. My main wouldn't be a Cleric if I did. I just think Archers are the most fun class in this game. They get more attacking skills than any other class and they take more strategy than any other class.

BANDIT/CHIEFBANDIT/SHADOWER

[Squeek]

Re: MapleStory

I count 14 for Rangers/Snipers and 12 for Bandits.

We probably have a different definition of attacks. You say "attack skills that can be hotkeyed", right? I don't. An attack is something that does damage to an opponent. So technically, it's 15/13 if you count the normal attack.

The hawk is an attack. It's doing damage and it's a skill. Final Attack is an attack as well. Hell, it's right in the name.

[Afrobean]

Re: MapleStory

I count 14 for Rangers/Snipers and 12 for Bandits.

I meant it more in the sense of strategy. Many Archer skills make old ones obsolete, but Bandit attacks are obsoleted less often.

[Squeek]

Re: MapleStory

If we're just counting attacks that you'd spam to kill something, like Savage Blow and Strafe, Archers have 10, Bandits have 8 or 9. So either way, I'm still right.

You're basically saying that fourth job skills are the only worthwhile skills for any class, since each job advance (except the 2nd for most classes) pretty much only offers upgrades to previous skills. In that case, Bandits are the only class that has a fourth job with just a plethora of skills. Skills that I see as mainly pointless, but skills nonetheless. Assaulter is replaced by Assassinate. Band of Thieves is replaced by Ambush. The only unique skill is Boomerang, and that doesn't seem too useful to me. You get poison and smoke and showdown too, but those aren't spam skills. Those are pre-attack skills which are also pointless since you never spend that much time killing an opponent in the first place. On bosses, sure. Totally useful. Kinda.

Hell I just don't like Bandits OK? I've always seen them as a gimped version of Assassins with skills that just look cool to make up for their ****tyness.

[Afrobean]

Re: MapleStory

If we're just counting attacks that you'd spam to kill something, like Savage Blow and Strafe, Archers have 10, Bandits have 8 or 9. So either way, I'm still right.

You're basically saying that fourth job skills are the only worthwhile skills for any class, since each job advance (except the 2nd for most classes) pretty much only offers upgrades to previous skills. In that case, Bandits are the only class that has a fourth job with just a plethora of skills. Skills that I see as mainly pointless, but skills nonetheless. Assaulter is replaced by Assassinate. Band of Thieves is replaced by Ambush. The only unique skill is Boomerang, and that doesn't seem too useful to me. You get poison and smoke and showdown too, but those aren't spam skills. Those are pre-attack skills which are also pointless since you never spend that much time killing an opponent in the first place. On bosses, sure. Totally useful. Kinda.

Hell I just don't like Bandits OK? I've always seen them as a gimped version of Assassins with skills that just look cool to make up for their ****tyness.

Bandits are nothing like assassins rofl holy crap

[ckj846]

Re: MapleStory

Being a 3rd job archer myself, I know that it is extremely hard, if not impossible to outdamage most other classes unless you have godly gear. I haven't played in a long time and maybe they added some weapons or scrolls or pots or something that make everyone insane but a 22xx damage range for a level 83 ranger sounds a bit insane, considering that that is my average range and I'm level 98 or 99. And no my equips don't suck terribly. Either you're extremely funded or I'm way behind the times. Anyways.

Archers are boring. They seem fun for a while. Sure Squeek, grinding through levels in 10 minutes is nothing. Imagine grinding and grinding for hours and hours over and over. Sure, archers may be able to kill things skillfully, but not effectively. Puppet takes a while to set up, rain makes you take too much damage, hawk is costly with rocks and isn't always reliable (and kinda annoying because it attacks awkwardly), strafe is unstable because of the 4 crits, MB is useful but a pain in the ass to level because you don't see a difference in your skills. Really, all other classes continue to shine. Warriors almost double in power. Sins get faster with FJ and strong and stable with SP. Bandits get meso explosion. Mages get mist / IS / HS / SR / ridiculous AoE attacks.

Archers just got the short end of the stick. Puppet and hawk and everything is cool for a while but having to rely on them when you are in parties or when you want to go in with brute force (ie. boss battles), archers just dont' really cut it.

4th job IS different because you get SoA and you get that critical up thing (dont' remember, haven't played in a LONG time).

Oh and my equips off the top of my head...
+17 dex 15 str zhelm
103 metus
21 ades
+9 shoes
+11 glove
0 dex earrings

Not amazing but not crappy. Just thought that would further my point. I spent millions on this stuff (then again, it was when things were inflated). An unfunded lukles priest would surpass me by FAR.

O_o

[vpr0721]

Re: MapleStory

Being a 3rd job archer myself, I know that it is extremely hard, if not impossible to outdamage most other classes unless you have godly gear. I haven't played in a long time and maybe they added some weapons or scrolls or pots or something that make everyone insane but a 22xx damage range for a level 83 ranger sounds a bit insane, considering that that is my average range and I'm level 98 or 99. And no my equips don't suck terribly. Either you're extremely funded or I'm way behind the times. Anyways.

Archers are boring. They seem fun for a while. Sure Squeek, grinding through levels in 10 minutes is nothing. Imagine grinding and grinding for hours and hours over and over. Sure, archers may be able to kill things skillfully, but not effectively. Puppet takes a while to set up, rain makes you take too much damage, hawk is costly with rocks and isn't always reliable (and kinda annoying because it attacks awkwardly), strafe is unstable because of the 4 crits, MB is useful but a pain in the ass to level because you don't see a difference in your skills. Really, all other classes continue to shine. Warriors almost double in power. Sins get faster with FJ and strong and stable with SP. Bandits get meso explosion. Mages get mist / IS / HS / SR / ridiculous AoE attacks.

Archers just got the short end of the stick. Puppet and hawk and everything is cool for a while but having to rely on them when you are in parties or when you want to go in with brute force (ie. boss battles), archers just dont' really cut it.

4th job IS different because you get SoA and you get that critical up thing (dont' remember, haven't played in a LONG time).

Oh and my equips off the top of my head...
+17 dex 15 str zhelm
103 metus
21 ades
+9 shoes
+11 glove
0 dex earrings

Not amazing but not crappy. Just thought that would further my point. I spent millions on this stuff (then again, it was when things were inflated). An unfunded lukles priest would surpass me by FAR.

O_o

Thats some nice stuff you got there, should get some dex earrings, they arnt so expensive anymore...

[vpr0721]

Re: MapleStory

Random SS of afro being... afro lol =)

[Afrobean]

Re: MapleStory

I still haven't passed that guy yet. He stopped bugging me to get outta there so I stopped paying it any mind.