Need some opinions

**foxfire667** · 02-8-2013, 02:07 PM

Re: Need some opinions

Originally posted by Zageron

Except for the fact that we're talking about a completely un-monetary based system, built with no copyright in mind. By submitting the file, FFR was not being 'granted' permission to use it. More like FFR waits for file submissions so that files are more original, step artists want their files to be on FFR so they make them for FFR.

It is a huge misconception that copyright sort of disappears if monetary gain isn't involved, which is incorrect. The usage of copyrighted works without the permission of the rights holder (unless dictated in some form of free use or if the rights to material expired) is copyright infringement. Just because "I'm not making any money off of it" doesn't change anything, and is the misconception of those uninformed with general copyright law.

FFR does have copyright in mind, by the way, because technically all of the engine builds of "Flash Flash Revolution is Copyright Synthetic Light Studios 2002" up until the current year. That is, unless Synthlight wants to completely remove his rights to have FFR noted as a copyrighted work, in which case everyone essentially has the legal right to copy, host, and distribute any part of FFR anywhere. I don't think that is something you guys want.

Every submission you guys get is a stepper granting FFR the permission to use his works in the game, but that is all it is, permission. This permission (at the moment) is not permanent, indefinite, or by any means irrevocable. Users rights are not removed from them under the current policy, because you have no policy to work with in your legal favor. Without previsions step artists agree to that remove some of their rights, they can revoke their permission at any time. You may attempt to refuse, but a step artist can follow suit with sending a take down notice for their copyrighted materials as mentioned in the DMCA. Now, due to the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act, if you take down the infringing materials, this is as far as it will go (since it wouldn't be infringing until they decided to remove their permissions). I'm not saying that most step artists would file a lawsuit on FFR if you refused to remove their content, but it is a possibility if you choose to believe step author's rights don't exist (even without a proper rights transfer to FFR).

I think this was skipped over, I'll re-post my example terms and conditions I wrote last night regarding this FFR could potentially use as a new policy to prevent this stuff from happening in the future:

**NocturneAunamic** · 02-8-2013, 02:11 PM

Re: Need some opinions

Originally posted by Plan_Bsk81127

This is a selfish act to want them removed and should deserve no respect or having a "better relationship" with him. Just keep the files and let him have his little bitch fit over on that piece of shit site TS he worships.

rofl I think you need to go for a walk and shake out that stick in your panties

I can see why anyone would oppose taking out files if it's more than 1 file, it seems crazy to just be ripping out files like that. But I mean it would be nice if giving the chance to remove files by request. There was no transaction or legal agreement that the files would be unremovable from the game once accepted, it's like loaning a friend a game and then when you ask for it back, "oh i lost it" or "naw im keeping it", that's the attitude it gives off.

I understand there are stats connected to the songs, but obviously that hasn't stopped FFR before since like a good amount of legacy and early skill tokens are unplayable on R^2. I think there's a lot of inconsistencies in stances going on, but I'm not here to dictate what's right or wrong.

Originally posted by d4u7211

omfg okay bitches heres how it goes down

when you put files in the game, you aren't the boss, the site is, and all the people moderating it. If you don't want your shit to stay plastered on a website, you dont upload it, simple enough. If you wanted it in a site that does so much work to get the file in the game, you should know that youre pretty much allowing the file to be coproduced, which then means the file had work done on it by the site mods, judges, etc as well as you. IT IS NO LONGER FULLY YOUR PRODUCTION and therefore is not solely your "property." fucking shit its kinda simple.

Big man in da house oh lawdy.

I wish there were concrete rules on this site dictating this dilemma before everyone starts pulling random shit out of their ass and saying its the rules lol

**hi19hi19** · 02-8-2013, 02:12 PM

Re: Need some opinions

Originally posted by justin_ator

I haven't seen you post in a while, is it bad that I thought maybe the person wanting them removed was you? Kinda realized it wasn't once I heard how many files and the timeframe they were released.

lol no asking for my old bad files to be removed IS the kind of thing I would do... if I was a douchebag

Honestly though just because I'm not proud of them and I know a lot of people don't like the files... I also hear occasional good comments about even what I consider my worst files, so I know someone is enjoying them. (someone once posted on my wall that their favorite file in the game was Science Genius Girl... okay.)
Leaving the files in the game for those few people who enjoy them is the right thing to do. Everyone else doesn't HAVE to play them, they are there if you want or not. (if you are 100% levelrank perfectionist that's your choice not mine)

**krunkykai22** · 02-8-2013, 02:13 PM

Re: Need some opinions

Originally posted by trumaestro

Remove the files as requested, then implement rules now that say whether or not or under what circumstances files can be removed. Files released before the new rules were implemented can probably be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

As for rules from a long time ago, if there were any, they weren't in the most logical place: the OP of the batch discussion thread from back then. Proof: http://web.archive.org/web/200804120...ad.php?t=58177

Having to dig through that thread for a random post by tass or the like isn't good enough imo. It needs to have been readily visible.

AND including what Foxfire said above me, I'm sorry, but since there is no legitimate proof that there is a rule stating once you submit a file it is then FFR's personal property. Since, V4N created the file, it's HIS property, nor did he sign a contract or abide to a "gray area" contract stipulating that he now gives ownership away. There are WAY too many loop holes here, and the Staff should put together a group of people to completely revamp all rules in each and every single way so that there are not as many gray areas (if any afterwards) that can be found that are important.

My idea, this fell under a gray area, and regardless whether or not people would be upset, it really isn't up to us. I do enjoy his files, do not get me wrong, I really do, but they are just that, HIS files, and therefore with no contract signing or rule in place saying otherwise, he has every right to remove his own files.

**Razor** · 02-8-2013, 02:14 PM

Re: Need some opinions

oh my god who fucking cares, let him remove his files out of the game. not a huge deal, nor does it really matter when there's 1000 other songs to play.

**psychoangel691** · 02-8-2013, 02:14 PM

Re: Need some opinions

Originally posted by NocturneAunamic

I understand there are stats connected to the songs, but obviously that hasn't stopped FFR before since like a good amount of legacy and early skill tokens are unplayable on R^2. I think there's a lot of inconsistencies in stances going on, but I'm not here to dictate what's right or wrong.

The R^2 thing isn't something that was intentional it was a concept engine that was being worked on and the bugs were never all taken care of. Jon then decided to start working on R^3 which also still has bugs to be worked out. That has nothing to do with content actually being removed from this game.

**trumaestro** · 02-8-2013, 02:14 PM

Re: Need some opinions

Originally posted by psychoangel691

On the relationship standpoint when it comes to music artist or stepartist it's kinda like yeah you can oblige but then you're pissing off a whole (or a good majority) of the community vs one person. I just feel like this affects a lot of people and that's unfair just because he doesn't want to be associated with the files anymore.

I kinda don't really feel the museum thing is quite the same because this is a game that you are providing content for. It has stats and things tied to these songs it's just just something on display. Plus aren't most things in museums bought by them or donated? I think you might be thinking more along the lines of a gallery but then again I don't really look much into those things.

Again on the relationship thing it was more about musicians, because some of them may have friends in high places (read:twitter etc.) and can bring far more trouble to the site than pissing off this community, which would subside with time.

Gallery, museum, back alley wall whatever. The point is that just because additional work is done to get the file into the game doesn't mean that it becomes FFR property.

**krunkykai22** · 02-8-2013, 02:17 PM

Re: Need some opinions

Originally posted by Razor

oh my god who fucking cares, let him remove his files out of the game. not a huge deal, nor does it really matter when there's 1000 other songs to play.

*cough* smh, can't believe I'm going to say this *cough*

I +1 Razor's post.

**psychoangel691** · 02-8-2013, 02:19 PM

Re: Need some opinions

Originally posted by krunkykai22

AND including what Foxfire said above me, I'm sorry, but since there is no legitimate proof that there is a rule stating once you submit a file it is then FFR's personal property. Since, V4N created the file, it's HIS property, nor did he sign a contract or abide to a "gray area" contract stipulating that he now gives ownership away. There are WAY too many loop holes here, and the Staff should put together a group of people to completely revamp all rules in each and every single way so that there are not as many gray areas (if any afterwards) that can be found that are important.

My idea, this fell under a gray area, and regardless whether or not people would be upset, it really isn't up to us. I do enjoy his files, do not get me wrong, I really do, but they are just that, HIS files, and therefore with no contract signing or rule in place saying otherwise, he has every right to remove his own files.

Then tell him to honor my request for my TS files to be removed because they are my files. There was no rule stating those became TS property either.

Originally posted by hi19hi19

lol no asking for my old bad files to be removed IS the kind of thing I would do... if I was a douchebag

Honestly though just because I'm not proud of them and I know a lot of people don't like the files... I also hear occasional good comments about even what I consider my worst files, so I know someone is enjoying them. (someone once posted on my wall that their favorite file in the game was Science Genius Girl... okay.)
Leaving the files in the game for those few people who enjoy them is the right thing to do. Everyone else doesn't HAVE to play them, they are there if you want or not. (if you are 100% levelrank perfectionist that's your choice not mine)

See I like this mentality. Not everyone will always enjoy them but there's always someone that does. I'm one of those people who generally enjoys the files that tend to get hate here on ffr and end up not really liking the more popular ones.

**noname219** · 02-8-2013, 02:20 PM

Re: Need some opinions

We got a visitor.

Imo, on a legal standpoint, we should remove his files if he says so, for whatever the reason. (minus trolling obv)
But, if I was him, I wouldn't do it because I think it would hurt his reputation more than keeping them in the game. (and it's the first time I heard any hate against V4N's file) EDIT : I wasn't really active until fairly recently so I guess most people are not complaining anymore against his files (if that was the case back then)...

**NocturneAunamic** · 02-8-2013, 02:20 PM

Re: Need some opinions

Originally posted by Razor

oh my god who fucking cares, let him remove his files out of the game. not a huge deal, nor does it really matter when there's 1000 other songs to play.

Finally some sense lol. Thank you for that

**krunkykai22** · 02-8-2013, 02:22 PM

Re: Need some opinions

I have already messaged him and told him that your files as well should be removed.

But, in all honesty, I feel that you got mad at him for asking for his files to be removed and countered his request with an angrily response such as what you requested.

Still, it seems like a personal issue with you two, when Tiza should have just went to BMAH or Zag or even Jon for the issue. So regardless, you're files on TS have no bearing here on FFR. The issue at hand isn't TS's rules, but FFR's.

EDIT: And yes, Tiza is viewing the thread, as I linked him to it

**foxfire667** · 02-8-2013, 02:22 PM

Re: Need some opinions

Originally posted by psychoangel691

Then tell him to honor my request for my TS files to be removed because they are my files. There was no rule stating those became TS property either.

Actually, you should. If they are your files and you are concerned that they are infringing upon your rights, send them a take down notice, and if they don't comply, file a lawsuit. I doubt your files are so important to TS that they would have a representative of their site (or the owner themselves) go to court to defend them.

**NocturneAunamic** · 02-8-2013, 02:24 PM

Re: Need some opinions

Originally posted by foxfire667

Actually, you should. If they are your files and you are concerned that they are infringing upon your rights, send them a take down notice, and if they don't comply, file a lawsuit. I doubt your files are so important to TS that they would have a representative of their site (or the owner themselves) go to court to defend them.

I'm pretty sure there'd be no issue removing a song from TS, no need to involve lawsuit over a file. It's just a game.

**krunkykai22** · 02-8-2013, 02:24 PM

Re: Need some opinions

Originally posted by foxfire667

Actually, you should. If they are your files and you are concerned that they are infringing upon your rights, send them a take down notice, and if they don't comply, file a lawsuit. I doubt your files are so important to TS that they would have a representative of their site (or the owner themselves) go to court to defend them.

Actually not a bad idea, but think that Tiza could do the same thing here against FFR as well if they don't comply with his request.

Need some opinions

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