A question about gays/lesbians

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  • JKPolk
    tool
    • Aug 2003
    • 3737

    #16
    Re: A question about gays/lesbians

    There's enough people on the planet that we could use some more gays/lesbians/people just plain not reproducing.

    Comment

    • ckj846
      FFR Player
      • Jan 2004
      • 2437

      #17
      Re: A question about gays/lesbians

      I agree with you afro. Iw as thinking of homosexuality as a trait but it really isn't. I guess this thread brings in the idea of what it is to really be homosexual. I think that someone who is homosexual is basically a person who prefers someone of the same sex over someone of the opposite sex. It really just confuses me though because if homosexuality isn't passed from generation to generation, are you saying its a random mishap? It seems as though it is more of a hormonal imbalance during pregnancy.

      Originally posted by wiki
      A 1993 U.S. study found a correlation between male homosexuality and maternal lineage, suggesting that mothers have some special role in determining the sexual orientation of their male offspring. Studies since the 1960s (eg Slater, 1962) have noted that homosexual men tend to be the later-born among a group of siblings. Many recent studies (see Fraternal birth order) have indicated that homosexual men are more likely to have older brothers than the general male population. (This difference is not observed among women.)

      A chemical called the histocompatibility Y-antigen (the "HY antigen") is found on the surface of the cells of male mammals. It is hypothesized (Wachtel, 1983; Blanchard & Bogaert, 1996) that the "fraternal birth order effect" may be related to increasing levels of antibodies produced by the mother in response to the presence of this chemical during pregnancy with the oldest son. These antibodies could then somehow trigger different brain development patterns in later male children, either in the uterus or in early childhood through breast milk. Later sons would then more likely to have a homosexual orientation as adults. At least one genetic study attempting to verify this theory claimed to find a correlation with a certain area of the X chromosome (of which all women carry two copies, and all men carry one), but these findings could not be replicated by other researchers.

      An alternate theory was proposed by Italian researchers in 2004 (Camperio-Ciani et al. 2004), supported by a study of about 4,600 people who were the relatives of 98 homosexual and 100 heterosexual men. Female relatives of the homosexual men tended to have more offspring than those of the heterosexual men. Female relatives of the homosexual men on their mother's side tended to have more offspring than those on the father's side. The researchers concluded that there was genetic material being passed down on the X chromosome which both promotes fertility in the mother and homosexuality in her male offspring. The connections discovered, however, would explain only 20% of the cases studied, indicating that this might not be the sole genetic factor determining sexual orientation.
      Wouldn't this maybe be a genetic mutation on the mother's behalf? Also:

      Originally posted by wiki
      Homosexuality has also been correlated with elevated testosterone levels in adult males, which may indicate an indirect genetic influence.
      Interesting stuff here. =D
      O_o

      EDIT:
      Originally posted by DarkVampiress21
      Maybe they just want to be different/get attention. I know that's true by some of the people I know >_<

      But if they're truly gay/lesbian, well I suppose they found someone who makes them happy but they're of the same sex. To them it doesn't matter, because they truly love that person and decide that they are gay/lesbian.

      And does it matter if it goes against natural selection? They aren't thinking, "Oh man, I love him, but oh darn! It goes against natural selection! I'm going to impact the human race out of 6 billion people!"

      Although, if the whole world becomes gay/lesbian, then that would definately be a problem. I seriously doubt that would happen though.
      Well the thing was, I was asking why they gays still existed if they didn't care about natural selection and they did not reproduce. Of course this lowered the population for future generations, but then if this WAS a genetic mutation (which I'm still not sure on) then why are there still homosexual people here? That was my real question.

      Sorry for this extremely long post =/
      Last edited by ckj846; 05-20-2006, 10:36 PM.
      pyro31191: TELL EVERYONE YOU WANT TO TAKE IT IN THE ASS NOW
      pyro31191: rofl
      pyro31191: You should tell them earlier though
      pyro31191: so they can buy dildos instead of fleshlights

      Comment

      • Afrobean
        Admiral in the Red Army
        • Dec 2003
        • 13262

        #18
        Re: A question about gays/lesbians

        Trying to find the roots of homosexuality is like trying to find the roots of S&M or pedophilia.

        It's all environment, guys.

        EDIT: By the way, notice how they use the word correlate. That's a fancy word meaning that as one goes up, the other changes. This however does not necessarily mean that one caused the other.

        Comment

        • Z3ratul
          FFR Player
          • Jun 2004
          • 940

          #19
          Re: A question about gays/lesbians

          However, from a sexual standpoint, it seems that homoesexuality would be the way to go. Your partner is more likely to be looking for the same relationship (sexually) as you are. For males, assuming buttsex and giving head doesn't bother you (it does me), it would seem to be a pretty sweet deal.

          EDIT:

          Originally posted by Afrobean
          Trying to find the roots of homosexuality is like trying to find the roots of S&M or pedophilia.

          It's all environment, guys.
          Very good point.
          Originally posted by Grandiagod
          My father rapes me with logging equipment and my mother is a three legged grizzly bear going through menopause.

          Comment

          • jewpinthethird
            (The Fat's Sabobah)
            FFR Music Producer
            • Nov 2002
            • 11711

            #20
            Re: A question about gays/lesbians

            Natural Selection means survival of the fittest. As you should well be aware, the human species is at the top of the food chain. Homosexuals are still members of the human species.

            Homosexuality is not a trait that can be passed on from generation to generation. It's a genetic mutation, a mixed up combination of X and Y chromosomes, individual to each person. Just because someone is homosexual doesnt mean the are any less fit for survival than heterosexuals.

            Comment

            • Deaths_Melancholy
              FFR Player
              • Apr 2006
              • 43

              #21
              Re: A question about gays/lesbians

              Umm just posting my thoughts on this...

              I think that the factors for being gay are hormonal and environmentally influenced. Now I know that the genes eventually control how much of what hormones you got going on in the blood, but you never know if the parents smoking or something affected that in the long run. Please do not flame me on this post as I do not hate any gay peoples untill they decide to make me uncomfortable by staring or something. Slight genetic differences can change a lot of things... I personally think it's more upbringing and environmental, as is with most things. I'm not saying that it isn't freedom of choice. There are probably a decent pecentage of gay people who do choose it without other factors. And now to answer the topic question. It cannot be just a gene that causes it, seeing as it just hasn't disappeared off the face of the planet, and genetic mutations take hundreds of years to form(as there are no offspring being produced to continue the gene spread. which is also now making me think whoever started this thread has no logic... If it isn't gone and nothing to spread the gene then it cannot be just the "gene" that makes it happen).

              Overview: Cannot be just gene or it would've just dissappeared already.
              My standpoint is that a "gene" could help but isn't the main factor

              edit: forgot to throw into the overview that I AM NOT against gay people. I also have many gay friends and am usually comfortable with them around as long as they respect me and do not make me feel uncomfortable

              edit2: in the main paragraph somewhere... meh.. more of my opinions.
              Last edited by Deaths_Melancholy; 05-20-2006, 11:00 PM.
              I would make this funny, but my laziness said no.

              -Melancholy

              Comment

              • Z3ratul
                FFR Player
                • Jun 2004
                • 940

                #22
                Re: A question about gays/lesbians

                Situational perhaps? As are most things.
                Originally posted by Grandiagod
                My father rapes me with logging equipment and my mother is a three legged grizzly bear going through menopause.

                Comment

                • Afrobean
                  Admiral in the Red Army
                  • Dec 2003
                  • 13262

                  #23
                  Re: A question about gays/lesbians

                  And what of the common homosexual behavior among animals? Do they all have mutant genes as well?

                  Comment

                  • BluE_MeaniE
                    FFR Player
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 796

                    #24
                    Re: A question about gays/lesbians

                    Originally posted by Z3ratul
                    Situational perhaps? As are most things.
                    Most things are caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors.

                    Originally posted by Deaths_Melancholy
                    edit: forgot to throw into the overview that I AM NOT against gay people.
                    Oh, you are more than you think. Admit it first. Then you can fix it.
                    Originally posted by Henri Poincaré
                    The scientist does not study nature because it is useful to do so. He studies it because he takes pleasure in it, and he takes pleasure in it because it is beautiful.

                    Comment

                    • Afrobean
                      Admiral in the Red Army
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 13262

                      #25
                      Re: A question about gays/lesbians

                      Originally posted by BluE_MeaniE
                      Most things are caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors.
                      Even behavior? I'd say that behavior is by far more environment.

                      PS homosexuality is a behavior.

                      Comment

                      • Z3ratul
                        FFR Player
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 940

                        #26
                        Re: A question about gays/lesbians

                        Originally posted by BluE_MeaniE
                        Most things are caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors.
                        Hence situational. -_-

                        Originally posted by Afrobean
                        Even behavior? I'd say that behavior is by far more environment.

                        PS homosexuality is a behavior.
                        I'd have to agree with you there. Unless people are saying that genetics determines behavior... in which case, there's no sense in talking about this because we fall back into that Determinism hole. It seems the debate right now is about whether or not homosexuality is a choice (environmental factors) or a fate (genetics). Which, as has been said, is probably situationally some combination (not necessarily balanced) of the two. If anybody has some emperical evidence that proves the case for one side or the other (like that book), I'd like to hear it.
                        Originally posted by Grandiagod
                        My father rapes me with logging equipment and my mother is a three legged grizzly bear going through menopause.

                        Comment

                        • ckj846
                          FFR Player
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 2437

                          #27
                          Re: A question about gays/lesbians

                          Originally posted by wikipedia
                          Natural selection is the process by which individual organisms with favorable traits are more likely to survive and reproduce. Natural selection works on the whole individual, but only the heritable component of a trait will be passed on to the offspring, with the result that favorable, heritable traits become more common in the next generation. Given enough time, this can lead to adaptation and speciation (see evolution).
                          Natural selection is the survial of the fittest to reproduce. Homosexuals obviously cannot reproduce.
                          O_o
                          Sorry, I didn't realize how many people posted. This is in reponse to jewpin's post.
                          Last edited by ckj846; 05-21-2006, 12:02 AM.
                          pyro31191: TELL EVERYONE YOU WANT TO TAKE IT IN THE ASS NOW
                          pyro31191: rofl
                          pyro31191: You should tell them earlier though
                          pyro31191: so they can buy dildos instead of fleshlights

                          Comment

                          • Deaths_Melancholy
                            FFR Player
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 43

                            #28
                            Re: A question about gays/lesbians

                            Originally posted by BluE_MeaniE
                            Most things are caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors.


                            Oh, you are more than you think. Admit it first. Then you can fix it.
                            I don't get it...
                            I would make this funny, but my laziness said no.

                            -Melancholy

                            Comment

                            • talisman
                              Resident Penguin
                              FFR Simfile Author
                              • May 2003
                              • 4598

                              #29
                              Re: A question about gays/lesbians

                              afro there isn't "proof" either way... evidence that supports the environmental stance is also all correlational. It's a logical fallacy to assume that a certain position is incorrect when in reality it only may or may not be correct, especially when the alternative position is in the same state of flux.

                              Point is that there's evidence to both sides, and if you actually want to make a real argument, you should find some that supports yours instead of just dropping your opinion in a vacuum.

                              Comment

                              • Z3ratul
                                FFR Player
                                • Jun 2004
                                • 940

                                #30
                                Re: A question about gays/lesbians

                                Originally posted by talisman
                                Point is that there's evidence to both sides, and if you actually want to make a real argument, you should find some that supports yours instead of just dropping your opinion in a vacuum.
                                I prefer the vacuum personally.
                                Originally posted by Grandiagod
                                My father rapes me with logging equipment and my mother is a three legged grizzly bear going through menopause.

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