Death Itself

[Reach]

Re: Death Itself

We're just too stupid to know of a way of restarting the body.

Not really too stupid. It's kind of hard to restart organs that don't work. We can restart the body a few minutes after someone is dead, sometimes, if there are not complications with the organs themselves that we can't do anything about.

Cloning could save us. Organ cloning is where it's at ;D

[scottish]

Re: Death Itself

To Reach, I see where your comming from :P My dad works in an E.R and was a paramedic in NYC for 26 years, and my mom is a nurse, soo I've see plenty of things before..
As humans, it is a humans intuition to be afraid of what they dont know, consiously or subconsiously, and for this reason so many ideas spring forth from death. Take away the word and the association we give meaning to it, and we have nothing out of the ordinary, just a situation that seems to happen all the time.

[SethSquall]

Re: Death Itself

Its the sheer nothingness of death that scares me. Your gone, your not coming back, there nothing you can do etc. I fear death yea, however I believe this is because I don't feel like I have seen enough, learnt enough, experienced enough. I think dying unhappy is scarier than death itself. I think its natural for young (but obviously not just young, but id say mostly) people to fear death as there is so much they want to do. Also I think its because some people do not understand death, again going to the unknown. Don't get me wrong I will never do all that I've wanted before I die, hopefully though I will do the things I wanted to do the most.

[Kles]

Re: Death Itself

Just to clarify something:

There are two definitions of death: clinical and biological. If your heart stops, you are clinically dead, however the heart can be restarted since your brain is still capable of sending out signals, and is doing so.

Biological is when the brain stops. We do not yet(?) know how to restart the brain once is stops functioning, so at biological death, you are, well, dead.

[aperson]

Re: Death Itself

Not to mention I'm pretty sure DMT created in your brain isn't the DMT you smoke, and they are unsure of it's effects, so I'm not sure if it would be that fun after all. Most natural DMT experiences arn't nearly as uh, exciting as some 4D techno buddah with mad lights. XD

DMT is short for Dimethyltryptamine, or to be completely specific n,n-dimethyltryptamine. Basically what you're saying is "This carbon atom is different from this carbon atom" Uhh, no. The DMT produced in your brain is the exact same DMT that you smoke. Reach, you are completely awful at doing research on this forum before you make claims.

[Reach]

Re: Death Itself

Funny thing is, is that I actually did do research, and it's not like I don't know what DMT is.

There is no evidence to support the effects of dmt in the brain are the same as smoking it. None. If you're going to insult me I might aswell insult you for jumping on me before doing any real research yourself other than listening to some joe roegan speculations.

I can't find any tested evidence to show any of this is involved in death trips. DMT is only speculated to be produced in the pineal gland. It's speculated to promote visual effects of natural dreaming and near death experiences.

It's speculated. Just like this big steaming pile of speculation mr I have researched everything.

However, the moments leading up to death are pretty fun. It's basically a rush of DMT to your brain that make you trip out and go into complete mental overdrive right before your brain shuts off completely.

If there is evidence lets see it, because I havn't read it.

And by 'are not the same' I ment are not the same effects. It is now edited, and though it was obviously my fault it is not what I ment.

ps: kles, good points.

[ReachfortheLight]

Re: Death Itself

Hmm, izzkinda hard not to link up death w/existence after it, don't you think?

I can't lay out a case for Heaven or Hell because I'm not smart like that. Or at least, I'm not well-read on the subject. But you've gotta consider this: if they do exist then there's no need to try and figure out what it's like to not exist at all.

It's real mind-boggling to try to comprehend what death feels like since all we have to work with are life (and perhaps a few near-death) experiences. I mean, no one's come back from the dead, right? Except maybe people like Lazarus or Jesus. But that's only if you've faith in the Bible. Of course, the Bible also says that God has "set eternity in the Hearts of men," and that's what I'm banking on.

Then again, that's only if you believe in such things.

Either way, I'd rather live with the hope of believing there's a better place once I die. The alternative is dreading the end of my rope to such a point where I bring myself to it faster. Who wants that?

[trillobyite]

Re: Death Itself

I've never been able to consider death as taking up a physical form or even an emotion. Death to me is simply an event which is found in the fate of every human being. I used to be like you when I was younger, constantly worried on certain nights about the very concept of death, but that fear has left me now. Everyone is bound to die at some point, and somewhere in the world, regardless of souls, or reincarnation, another will be born. I used to also be scared of the concept of nothingness that death is (if one doesn't believe in an afterlife), but I figured, I'm not scared to go to sleep every night, and unless I can distinctly remember a dream, that same state of nothingness is probably present in death. To be truthful, I fear the death of loved ones much, much more than my own death.

I read somewhere (but I doubt I will be able to find where again) that the reason some feel as though they are ascending into heaven in a near-death experience is because the brain releases certain chemicals that stimulate pleasure right before it perceives the threat of death. Is that true?

[scottish]

Re: Death Itself

I believe it is a more of a mind kind thing, combined with heightened adreniline and emotions. You know, if you try hard enough you can see what you only want to see, you can hear what you only want to hear, same goes with doing what you want to do. Not in such that you break laws of physics, which is a whole other story, but deleting certain rules and blocking them out of your head allows to achieve this.
I.e. If anyone has seen the movie PI, this is taken from it..

" Hold on. You have to slow down. You're losing it. You have to take a breath. Listen to yourself. You're connecting a computer bug I had with a computer bug you might have had and some religious hogwash. You want to find the number 216 in the world, you will be able to find it everywhere. 216 steps from a mere street corner to your front door. 216 seconds you spend riding on the elevator. When your mind becomes obsessed with anything, you will filter everything else out and find that thing everywhere."

You know, obsessing or having something pushed onto you your entire life can make you mind obsessed with this something. So for example, heaven. You believe in heaven, and your parents push you into believing it, you technically create a heaven, an image, what it will look like and such...within yourself. My guess is images like these are projected along with stimulants, if its true, will create a blissful type of experience, which people may call "heaven"

[aperson]

Re: Death Itself

Funny thing is, is that I actually did do research, and it's not like I don't know what DMT is.

There is no evidence to support the effects of dmt in the brain are the same as smoking it. None. If you're going to insult me I might aswell insult you for jumping on me before doing any real research yourself other than listening to some joe roegan speculations.

I can't find any tested evidence to show any of this is involved in death trips. DMT is only speculated to be produced in the pineal gland. It's speculated to promote visual effects of natural dreaming and near death experiences.

It's speculated. Just like this big steaming pile of speculation mr I have researched everything.

If there is evidence lets see it, because I havn't read it.

And by 'are not the same' I ment are not the same effects. It is now edited, and though it was obviously my fault it is not what I ment.

ps: kles, good points.

I never said it was produced in the pineal gland, however, it is produced naturally by the body in much lower amounts than you generally smoke when you trip. Of course the effects are different, the dosage is different but not the substance.

Furthermore:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_writings2.shtml

"DMT has been found to occur naturally in mammalian brains (Barker [4] and Christian [171). "Indolealkylamines... are the only known hallucinogenic agents whose endogenous occurrence in mammals, including man, has been confirmed" (McKenna [67]). Szara [114]says that it 'seems that the whole enzymatic apparatus exists in mammals which can produce tryptamine from tryptophane, DMT from tryptamine and 6- HDMT [the probably hallucinogenic 6-hydroxy-DMT] from DMT.'"

[talisman]

Re: Death Itself

where's the evidence that it is created in overabundance right before you die?

[aperson]

Re: Death Itself

where's the evidence that it is created in overabundance right before you die?

That is speculation because of the similarity between dmt experiences and the reports of those with near-death experience coupled with the fact that we know it is produced in the human body. It's kind of hard to scientifically measure this because it isn't really ethical to put someone in a near death state. Besides, my point on that was tangential to the discussion.

[windsurfer-sp]

Re: Death Itself

I've never been able to consider death as taking up a physical form or even an emotion. Death to me is simply an event which is found in the fate of every human being. I used to be like you when I was younger, constantly worried on certain nights about the very concept of death, but that fear has left me now. Everyone is bound to die at some point, and somewhere in the world, regardless of souls, or reincarnation, another will be born. I used to also be scared of the concept of nothingness that death is (if one doesn't believe in an afterlife), but I figured, I'm not scared to go to sleep every night, and unless I can distinctly remember a dream, that same state of nothingness is probably present in death.

I agree if death just lead to nothingness then i wouldnt be that scared eitheir but i belive that death leads to heaven or hell and the thought of hell scares me more.

Listen to this mp3 it is a recount of someones trip to hell. It sounds wierd but just give it a shot.

http://www.spiritlessons.com/Documents/a_divine_revelation_of_hell/MaryKBaxter_ADivineRevalationOfHell_AllTracks.mp3

Or check this out http://www.spiritlessons.com/Documen...nHell_Text.htm

The pitcure of the guys a little creepy but I mostly belive his recount.

Tell me what you think.

[scottish]

Re: Death Itself

The problem with nothingness is that nothingness is still something. We associate nothing, with something, and thats where it goes wrong. Ironically, we cannot decribe beyond what we can comprehend, so describing death is something we cannot do.
And for windsurfer, I'll check them out in a little.

[windsurfer-sp]

Re: Death Itself

And for windsurfer, I'll check them out in a little.

Cool when i read his speech it certainly made me think. Hope it gives you a fresher perspective as it did for me