Sad but true

[Annubi86]

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First post, I see it fit to this thread.(Been here for 2-3 years, keep it up)
I agree with Izzy, there is no God, but understand I decided that, over the Bible, and other documents, I decided there wasn't a God( or Gods), I dissagree however about the bashing most of you are giving out, Go about this in a calmer manner. No need in wasting emotion(including pity) on people who won't change their minds. Get over it...

Edit: On topic, I'm for it, its your life, do with what you will.

[MalReynolds]

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Christianity does teach how do be a normal person and not cut yourself and all but teaching in a false matter just made the children think its real.

And show me some proof that god exists and maybe ill beleave it.

And everyone is argueing with me.

So the rules and standards of moral decency just appeared out of nowhere?

Show me proof that he doesn't, and maybe I'll believe you.

If everyone is argueing with you, it says something about the arguement and the person pressing the issue.

Mal

[dooty_7]

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To ignorant pricks like you Izzy, God will never exist because you don't have the capacity to believe.
Have you ever heard of the divine proportion or golden proportion izzy, it is about 1.618 ((1+ root5)/2) and it shows up everywhere in nature. I would give examples but google it yourself to see. In my opinion, there is no way that so many things could possibly stem from that one precise number by accident. Some greater force or being must have created it.
Anyways, that is just what i think.

[psychic25]

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So the rules and standards of moral decency just appeared out of nowhere?

Why not? Why does the fact that there are "good" things and "evil" things require that there be a higher power? Don't we, the people (society as a whole), define the standards of moral decency?

To ignorant pricks like you Izzy, God will never exist because you don't have the capacity to believe.
Have you ever heard of the divine proportion or golden proportion izzy, it is about 1.618 ((1+ root5)/2) and it shows up everywhere in nature. I would give examples but google it yourself to see. In my opinion, there is no way that so many things could possibly stem from that one precise number by accident. Some greater force or being must have created it.
Anyways, that is just what i think.

"In my opinion, there is no way that so many things could possibly stem from that one precise number by accident."

Why not? I'd like proof that there is no way all these things could stem "by accident". Why does this require a higher power?

I know this is just your opinion, but still, since apparently since I disagree I'm also an "ignorant prick without the capacity to believe", I'd like an answer.

[Snapps]

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I know this is just your opinion, but still, since apparently since I disagree I'm also an "ignorant prick without the capacity to believe"

Yes you are lol

[MalReynolds]

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I'm not calling you an ignorant prick. Don't lump me in with that guy.

It's called faith for a reason, Psychic. I'm sure you're sick to death of hearing that excuse, but if everything were to be proven, it would fundamentally destroy the concept of religion.

Mal

[dooty_7]

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i just think that numerous things stemming from one precise value could not possibly have ahppened randomly or by accident. There are numerous examples on the human body as well as in a nautilus shell and in growing patterns in some animals. I just feel that something as complex as nature being simplified down to one number is enough proof for me to believe in a higher power.
btw psychic i didnt mean that if you don't believe in God you are an ignorant prick. i more meant that izzy is becuase he doesn't seem to have the capacity to understand other people's beliefs. i meant no disrespect.

[psychic25]

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Yes, I've heard that before, Mal. Uggghhhhhhhhh I hate that answer SOSOSOSOSO much.

And I didn't mean you were calling me a prick, I meant that the other guy was calling me a prick, indirectly.

EDIT: Okay, fine. All good, then.

And dooty, I guess that your proof just might not seem conclusive enough for me. Which actually kind of fits with what Mal is saying.

[dooty_7]

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ya like mal said if everything is proven, then there is basically no religion.
throughout the ages, religion was a way to explain observations that people could not physically explain. Faith is the power to believe without proof and not everyone is capable of doing it.

[MalReynolds]

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Pshycic, I don't care what you believe. Just believe it. Whatever you have to .

Mal

[psychic25]

Well, is it a good thing to be able to believe without proof?

I mean, when someone says something that sounds unbelievable and has no proof to back it up, it doesn't fly, EXCEPT in regards to religion.

Anyone who believes an idea that has no proof whatsoever is usually regarded as stupid, EXCEPT in regards to religion.

If people believed everything they heard, they'd just be a blind follower, not thinking for themselves.

And actually, I consider myself Christian. I'd like to be a better Christian, but I guess I just don't have any capacity for faith and I try to logic everything out. I don't have any problem with the existence of God, but I do have a problem with those logic loops in the Bible that I mentioned earlier- in other words, with the human-created part of it. If someone can answer those, I'll start believing right then.

[Rediahs]

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Hello -Izzy-.

I'm an agnostic, and you offend me with your intolerance and ignorant attitude.

You know what I call people who go around telling other people what to think when they are perfectly happy believing what they want to? Ass-holes.

The issue has never been whether they are right or not. -Izzy-, what you fail to understand is that, no matter how strongly you believe you are right, and no matter how strongly I believe I am right, Christians feel they are right just as strongly. And it is not because they are stupid, it's not because at the root of it we're right and they're wrong, and it's not because you're smarter than them. It's because this is a very complicated issue, and it's very difficult to figure out who's right and who's wrong.

THERE IS NO POINT in telling somebody that their beliefs are wrong, when they never asked for any sort of feedback from you. Even if there were, it's just plain rude and disprespectful. And calling them the names you are calling them is just plain FUCKTARDED.

I think you need to get a life.

Once again, I'm an agnostic, and you offend me, you intolerant son of a whore.

Thanks for your time.

[Neonatrias]

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I would like to redirect the last three pages of flame warring to this.

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...viewforum&f=38

Way to destroy a valid CT topic, guys.

[Mindfields]

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Neonatrias, the arguement stays here because, even if it is a flame war, it is one of superiority to anything in the GB. It was not a valid CT topic in the first place because mistakes were drawn everywhere in the first post, not to mention the posting of contents from a chain letter. It now has 7 pages. People are interested. It stays here.

[Grandiagod]

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I'm not going to be an Izzy here (I'll explain myself rationally) but her is why I think religious beliefs, especially christianity are a fallacy.
Now let me get things straight, I was raised a Christian until 8th grade so I'm not pulling things outa my ass. So here is my EXAMPLE, its an example people so don't go saying, Not everything is like that!!! Its not supposed to be, its an example.

Most Christians are familiar with the stor of Moses going out and finding a burning bush that was not actually being consumed by the fire, long story short the bush spoke and told Moses to free the Jews. Now I am assuming that most people know bushes do not talk, not even burning ones. But Christians believe that a plant told Moses to free the Jews, and that a man lived for three days in a whale and that a guy un-killed himself. These things are obviously impossible but they are still widely believed. If a modern day scientist said he saw a talking, eternally burning bush he would have to preform tests and experiments to prove that a bush could talk. However no one applies the scientific method to the bible because it would fail miserably. Another reason is that questioning the obvious fallacies of religion has become taboo and "intollerant" therfore ensuring the continuance of religion.

Christianity does teach how do be a normal person and not cut yourself and all but teaching in a false matter just made the children think its real.

And show me some proof that god exists and maybe ill beleave it.

And everyone is argueing with me.

So the rules and standards of moral decency just appeared out of nowhere?

Show me proof that he doesn't, and maybe I'll believe you.

If everyone is argueing with you, it says something about the arguement and the person pressing the issue.

Mal

Sorry Mal, standards of moral decency did not arise due to religion of any sort. They are a set of mass occuring instictual laws that allow humans to maintain civilization. Sure the bible dictates some of these, and I am not saying "thou shall not kill" is wrong. But laws against killing were around way before the old testament and those against stealing and so on. If human kind did not evolve the compacity to have natural moral decency then cities and towns would be impossible to form due to reckless chaos. But civilization arouse way before ten commandments.