Do you see anything wrong?

[Frank Munoz]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

I am kinda with IHC since... well.. more people are most likely offended by religious talk than by the 'N' word.
kinda

[UserNameGoesHere]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

It's okay to have a religion but it's not okay to force your religion or your religion's beliefs on other people. Unfortunately, even if you don't do this, it is highly likely others in your religion do. This is why I don't like organized religion.

For something which can't be proven one way or the other and effectively makes no difference on real-world outcomes were it to be true or were it to be false, religion sure does create a lot of animosity between people, even up to and including wars.

I say, instead of donating that money to your church, instead consider donating it to feeding the homeless or housing them or towards education or for hospitals/medical supplies/etc... Consider volunteering for charity work as well.

Consider spending your efforts in humanitarian ways rather than so much trying to convert people to a particular religion. Continue believing as you want in your personal life. Then, I'm sure if your religion is true, you will be rewarded for this. And if it isn't true, you did a good thing anyway. Win-win.

[i heart candy]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

I'm greatly offended for numerous reasons, but I don't expect a person who doesn't practice Christianity on a day to day basis to understand this. (Nor do I feel I should have to explain myself why I find this is wrong) But when I read the statement "Christianity is poisonous" I see it as it attack towards my beliefs more than an attempt to start up a civil argument. I seriously just felt like I got spit in the face.
But whatever.

[Hakulyte]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

They don't attack the beliefs, they attack the concept.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

I'm greatly offended for numerous reasons, but I don't expect a person who doesn't practice Christianity on a day to day basis to understand this. (Nor do I feel I should have to explain myself why I find this is wrong) But when I read the statement "Christianity is poisonous" I see it as it attack towards my beliefs more than an attempt to start up a civil argument. I seriously just felt like I got spit in the face.
But whatever.

Here is a good explanation for why faith is a problem:

I think Dawkins is oftentimes an asshole but this video is 100% spot-on.

tl;dr: There are plenty of good people who use religion to do good. The problem is that when we say that faith (believing in something without evidence) is a socially-acceptable reason for doing something, then it's very hard to argue against those who use their faith to impinge on others (ban abortions, hinder stem cell research, teach Creationism in the science class, discriminate/ban homosexuals from getting married, channel funding away from educational/scientific endeavors, etc) because "hey it's their religion!"

So I ask you: How do you stop the "extremism" -- which is derived from the underlying religion -- without attacking the religion?

[UserNameGoesHere]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

I do agree that I don't really see how there can be a civilized religion discussion though, when it'll boil down to whatever religion (or lack of) the majority are vs. everyone else.

And each person who is religious will say their religion is the one true religion. And each person who isn't will say prove it. And there won't be a way to prove it, but lack of proof isn't itself proof of the opposite. Or, just because you can't prove something doesn't mean it isn't true. But at the same time then, you can't have all religions being true since according to many religions, they are exclusively true with the others being false.

Facts can be presented, but how those facts are interpreted may differ depending on a person's religious views or lack thereof.

So I don't really see a way to civilly discuss differences in religion beyond simple statements of what people believe. You can't argue as to if their particular religion is right or wrong though, without things becoming uncivil very quickly.

On the religious side, the only facts that can be proven are something is said in the holy book, which can be verified that was said. Or, "we believe ..." and then what your religion believes, which can be verified. But it can't be proven those things are true - only that they are said or believed.

So it boils down to you either believe it or you don't. It can neither be proved nor disproved.

[i heart candy]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

Here is a good explanation for why can faith can sometimes be problem:

Fixed it for you.

Believing in something as simple and good (imo) such as Christianity never crossed to me as poisonous. I wasn't referring to extremism, and I'm sure the OP wasn't either.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

You completely missed the point.

[Coolboyrulez0]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

I think Dawkins is oftentimes an asshole but this video is 100% spot-on.

I laughed quite hard at this, and agree with it to some degree.

But you must admit, he's quite the grandiloquent asshole -- it's fun to hear the man speak.

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

Fixed it for you.

Believing in something as simple and good (imo) such as Christianity never crossed to me as poisonous. I wasn't referring to extremism, and I'm sure the OP wasn't either.

You're just talking as if all religious people were doing their own little things like you do. It's not all about You, it's about the fact that it leads some people to do bad things and that we can't argue (idk how many times rubix said that) with them for doing such things simply because their argument is "faith". Of Cooourse it's not a bad thing, For You, but what if (lol example) your god asked your friend, a rly extremist person who believes in the same thing as you, to kill people because they are "Bad" for whatever reason...

[Nullifidian]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

As wonderfully said by Tim Minchin:
"Science adjusts its views based on what's observed, faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved."

Faith is an argument that can't be countered because it's something personal and not based on anything other than personal experience, and those who have faith believe it is the right reason to act the way they act. Often it can and is used to to justify ignorant causes (which opens windows for extremists). But that doesn't mean it's a good argument to act on, because all it is based on is personal experiences without anything to it back it up.
Like Richard Dawkins said in the vid: "I believe X because I believe it because I believe it."

[Dynam0]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

After reading this thread, I would agree with what Rubix is saying 100%, though as a person of science I am of coursed biased in a way.

That being said, to all the Christians here, when did you decide to be Christians? Did you decide one day after a lecture on Christianity in high school to attend church the following Sunday and see what it's all about? I highly doubt it. You all were born into your religion, the same can be said for other organized religions as well. Although conversions happen, they are relatively rare and it's usually from one religion to another. If someone happens to "abandon" Christianity and then convert back again later in life it's because they use Christianity as a means of seeking sanctuary from their problems. Most people (my old self included) would only pray to God if they needed something, not because they actually have a connection with him.

Basically people of faith use their religion to feel a safety net around them, you now have a community of people who are roughly on the same page and support you. Not to mention the fact that you now believe in an almighty deity who will ensure your afterlife is filled with blissful peace. What's not to love about that prospect? If you want to believe in fairy tales with happy endings and you live a more positive life because of it then I encourage you to have faith. I myself though, do not need faith for these reasons.

If you use your faith as a means to feel more grounded and secured; level-headed and at peace with yourself, great. Most Christians agree that the church is horribly behind the times. Belief in Noah's Ark, miracle stories, etc. etc. is something that the devout Christian would cringe at when thrown into a debate about believing in the Bible literally rather than contextually. I still find it aggravating to know that millions and millions of people would center their lives and moral compasses on ONE piece of anecdotal evidence that there lived a man named Jesus who was the son of God, who was crucified, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again and ascended into heaven. Only ONE text in all history, the Bible, contains this story among all others yet this is the foundation for this massive following. It plagues me to understand how irrational the average person is but anyway..

tl;dr, religion is something that should be used as a personal safe zone, if you don't blindly follow all of the beliefs that a religion has to offer then why can't you just say you aren't a follower of said religion? Do you have to be a part of a religion to be happy and have a moral compass? No.

[Emanresu13]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

response to thread: lol


response to Dynam0:
i was born into christianity. my views have changed throughout my life. you could say i'm an agnostic-christian. when asked if i am a christian, my response is no, unless i just want to be left alone. i dislike being associated with the dogma and hypocrisy of most christians. in fact, i hope that what most christians believe to be true (big picture), is incorrect. i do not find it even remotely comforting.


(serious) response to OP:
i agree with MrPopadopalis25. to me, family are just people, as are friends. nobody gets a free pass from me. any person has to prove to be worth my time. my family has proven that, and that is why i care about them. not because of a label.

the person that wrote that is certainly dogmatic, but from the context it seems they had just broken up with someone and emotions were running high.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

i was born into christianity. my views have changed throughout my life. you could say i'm an agnostic-christian. when asked if i am a christian, my response is no, unless i just want to be left alone. i dislike being associated with the dogma and hypocrisy of most christians. in fact, i hope that what most christians believe to be true (big picture), is incorrect. i do not find it even remotely comforting.

1. Do you take any parts of the Bible literally? If so, which?
2. Do you think Jesus was a real person / divinely inspired / etc, or do you just see him as someone whose morals/visions are guidelines you wish to follow?

[Choofers]

Re: Do you see anything wrong?

Every week, people pay this man money.