"Chart" not "Step"

[stargroup100]

Re: "Chart" not "Step"

if trivial: why suggest it? <_<

there's no sense in making a radical change over something so trivial given that it's interchangeable terminology for the same thing.

You're conflating two ideas. The amount of effort it takes to adopt the change is trivial, but the impact it has on the community and the game is not. I argue that the impact is significant (and even if it isn't, my point that it makes more sense still stands), and therefore if there is no reason to NOT change, then we should change.

Wafles is an example of someone who got heated over a suggestion, even though he makes no argument for why he holds his position. Which is totally separate from the right to hold that position. It's like me advising him not to drink rat poison, but although he doesn't have a reason to drink it, he gets mad at me saying he has the right to do what he wants. (Except obviously the severity of the two issues is totally different.)

[stargroup100]

Re: &quot;Chart&quot; not &quot;Step&quot;

I honestly can't tell if you're just trolling people at this point lmao. For someone who supposedly doesn't care you went through all the effort to make a thread and are still arguing your point. You can care all you want but don't expect anyone else to.

Saying I care about the community doing something is not the same as saying I care about you doing something, nor does it mean I care about everyone in the community doing something.

this is exactly what you did in the dcp2 thread

I did come across as an idiot, yes, but I did so with adequate reason.

[choof]

Re: &quot;Chart&quot; not &quot;Step&quot;

does that make me a chartist

pls respond

[Wafles]

Re: &quot;Chart&quot; not &quot;Step&quot;

Wafles is an example of someone who got heated over a suggestion, even though he makes no argument for why he holds his position. Which is totally separate from the right to hold that position. It's like me advising him not to drink rat poison, but although he doesn't have a reason to drink it, he gets mad at me saying he has the right to do what he wants. (Except obviously the severity of the two issues is totally different.)

Hm, I don't feel I was that heated but whatever. I don't have to make an argument for anything, this is a stupid thread and I'm not so sure anyone cares besides you. Stepping or charting, whatever you want to call it in the end it makes absolutely no difference.

I'm out. Have fun with the elitism and whatnot.

[ilikexd]

Re: &quot;Chart&quot; not &quot;Step&quot;

the term that more people tend to use and that does not cause confusion is the actual correct term, not one that is prescribed

Except it doesn't cause confusion, because regardless of whether I use "chart" or "step" everyone knows what I'm talking about.

you're not wrong at all by saying charting, you're wrong by correcting people who say stepping

Which is why I'm not wrong for suggesting people switch.

i know, i wasn't claiming either caused confusion, i was just saying step doesn't cause confusion AND is the one more (or at least a significant number of) people use which is why it isn't wrong, so you are wrong for correcting people who are using a correct term

Any other reason besides comfort out of habit?

nope, none at all. there are plenty of words whose original meaning or etymology suggests something different or even opposite of their current meaning, that's just how semantic progression works. comfort and habit is pretty much all it comes down to.

[stargroup100]

Re: &quot;Chart&quot; not &quot;Step&quot;

i know, i wasn't claiming either caused confusion, i was just saying step doesn't cause confusion AND is the one more (or at least a significant number of) people use which is why it isn't wrong, so you are wrong for correcting people who are using a correct term

I disagree with you here. I would agree that it's not the wrong term, but I would not agree that it's the right term.

[[TeRa]]

Re: &quot;Chart&quot; not &quot;Step&quot;

i like to chart on leaves that will clearly make a crunch sound when i walk places
zzzzzzzzzz

[ilikexd]

Re: &quot;Chart&quot; not &quot;Step&quot;

a term used to describe something can only be right or wrong; there is no middle ground for terms.

your reasoning for it not being a right term (or wrong term) is that there's a connotation to dance games with the word 'step'.
while it is true that that is ultimately the origin of the word, there is no longer a strong connotation with the dance game movement. i have been stepping/charting for a while now and i can't remember having ever looked at the word 'step' and pictured feet moving. it's a word when used in keyboard context holds no such connotation for me, and i wonder how much it would for other people. words that mean one thing can have their origins in other word that meant a similar/comparable thing, but not an equivalent one, and over time, that original meaning is totally forgotten. that's the deal with 'step'.

arbitrarily regressing and looking at where the word came from instead of what it currently means as a reason to not use it anymore is a pretty weird thing to do

[Wayward Vagabond]

Re: &quot;Chart&quot; not &quot;Step&quot;

I create works of art I'm a creationist

[stargroup100]

Re: &quot;Chart&quot; not &quot;Step&quot;

i have been stepping/charting for a while now and i can't remember having ever looked at the word 'step' and pictured feet moving.

I still have this connotation, and it is the reason why I was turned off from taking the game seriously when I first started playing, and is the core reason for my lack of motivation from playing competitively.[/QUOTE]

It is also the reason I couldn't get a lot of my friends to join me over the years, because they didn't view it as its own game, but rather "trying to be DDR" or a "rip-off of DDR" or "why play that when you can play DDR". (These are some but not all of the excuses my friends have given me, true story.)

arbitrarily regressing and looking at where the word came from instead of what it currently means as a reason to not use it anymore is a pretty weird thing to do

And this is why I'm not "arbitrarily regressing". I'm not saying that the word doesn't mean what it means now, that's ridiculous, and even I occasionally forget and use "step" out of habit. I've actually given a reason NOT to use the word, and that is that it gives the wrong impression for people about what our game is. Anyone that plays our game and hears "step" for the first time will not understand necessarily understand what it means, but is more likely to understand what it means using a more sensible term. If anything, sticking to habits for no reason (while there are positive reasons or negative ones for the converse) other than comfort is what I would call "arbitrary", and I certainly wouldn't call it "regressing". More like "progressing".

Whether or not one believes there is still such a group of people (because I'm sure there are going to be those who use this excuse) doesn't change the fact that I think the benefits outweigh the costs, and that is the sole reason for making almost any decision.

[stargroup100]

Re: &quot;Chart&quot; not &quot;Step&quot;

pls respond

yes

[trumaestro]

Re: &quot;Chart&quot; not &quot;Step&quot;

[ilikexd]

Re: &quot;Chart&quot; not &quot;Step&quot;

I still have this connotation, and it is the reason why I was turned off from taking the game seriously when I first started playing, and is the core reason for my lack of motivation from playing competitively.

It is also the reason I couldn't get a lot of my friends to join me over the years, because they didn't view it as its own game, but rather "trying to be DDR" or a "rip-off of DDR" or "why play that when you can play DDR". (These are some but not all of the excuses my friends have given me, true story.)



And this is why I'm not "arbitrarily regressing". I'm not saying that the word doesn't mean what it means now, that's ridiculous, and even I occasionally forget and use "step" out of habit. I've actually given a reason NOT to use the word, and that is that it gives the wrong impression for people about what our game is. Anyone that plays our game and hears "step" for the first time will not understand necessarily understand what it means, but is more likely to understand what it means using a more sensible term. If anything, sticking to habits for no reason (while there are positive reasons or negative ones for the converse) other than comfort is what I would call "arbitrary", and I certainly wouldn't call it "regressing". More like "progressing".

Whether or not one believes there is still such a group of people (because I'm sure there are going to be those who use this excuse) doesn't change the fact that I think the benefits outweigh the costs, and that is the sole reason for making almost any decision.

well whenever explaining the process of creating simfiles to family or an irl friend, i've of course always used 'chart' over 'step'. 'step' would make no sense to them and as you said possibly turn them off from them thinking it's a ddr clone (which i haven't personally experienced -- when i was quite new to ffr i'd sometimes play in the computer lab at school, when people saw what i was doing and asked what it was i called it "ddr for your fingers" and i actually got a bunch of other people interested in playing it)

i simply don't see referring to simfiling as 'stepping' as something that in any way gives the keyboard community a bad impression. and again of course, i don't think anyone would try to use 'step' with a person who isn't familiar.

[stargroup100]

Re: &quot;Chart&quot; not &quot;Step&quot;

But then something else doesn't really make much sense. Why would you use different terms on the outside and inside when they mean the same thing and are explicitly and easily interchangeable? I think it's better to just stick to one, the one that makes sense.

[lurker]

Re: &quot;Chart&quot; not &quot;Step&quot;

semantics are the least of stepmania's problems
you're talking about a term less than 1% of the people who have played a single song in this game have seen or heard
that shit doesn't matter when the barrier to entry and lack of centralization is fucking stupid, especially when there's a huge incentive not to fix the latter (and by association the former)