FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

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  • stargroup100
    behanjc & me are <3'ers
    FFR Simfile Author
    FFR Music Producer
    • Jul 2006
    • 2051

    #226
    Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

    yeah wc pretty much got this

    I don't know why kommi is so buttmad but technicality is not an extreme. a file is not black and white, technical or not technical. it's how to effectively use things that we have established will HELP make a chart more fun, such as pitch relevance

    ps pitch relevance is not let's squeeze an entire song into a 4 key piano it's placing notes such that the melodic contour is acknowledged and the notes are not placed randomly


    expanding on this if anyone cares to read:
    this is the same thing for all mediums of art. there is no piece of art that is purely technical or purely expressive, because there will always be some degree of subjectivity in the interpretation and there must be some sort of technical ability that went into the making of the art. someone with an acute ear might hear a subtle dissonance in a piece of music that was not meant to be there, pointing it out for the artist. this is not a nitpick that will make the music "technical to the point where it's not enjoyable to listen to," it's an improvement made to an already enjoyable piece. if someone points out that a piece of art has a disproportionate body somewhere, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad piece of art or it's unappealing, and fixing it certainly won't make it any worse. most importantly, it makes the artist aware of where he needs to improve technically if he wants to better his craft.

    example: jimerax is known for his very "technical" style of charting, but he has made a lot of good stuff and he does stick to what he believes is fun to play, and no matter how you look at it he has drastically improved a lot of my charts thanks to a lot of edits that he was capable of that I wasn't

    also this:
    Originally posted by kommisar
    The best simfile artists have narrowed it down to "does it feel like i'm playing the songs" and "is it fun to play". That's literally everything any casual player will care about or even most experienced players. People play shit that's fun.
    overrated quote that states the obvious
    The best chefs have narrowed it down to "does it taste good" and "is it appealing to look at". That's literally everything any casual customer will care about or even most critics. People eat shit that's good.
    The best musicians have narrowed it down to "does it sound nice" and "is it enjoyable to listen to". That's literally everything any casual listener will care about or even most experienced people. People listen to shit that's good.
    you could just "place notes where you feel like it as long as it's fun" but that doesn't necessarily make you a great or even good artist. great artists understand that there is a degree of technical ability that goes into the art of the craft and using that ability well and that technical ability it not the only thing that matters. you can't do calculus without first understanding basic math. you can't efficiently cook a complex dish without knowing the basics of cooking. you can't write a novel until you learn to read. anyone that doesn't acknowledge these things can turn out to be QED, thinking he's good but actually having 0 technical ability. the only thing that separates him from someone like us is previous experience and examples, and in that case we are still influenced by the technical ability of others through emulation, so i don't see what you're trying to get at

    the days where people over-analyze or "abuse technicality" are long gone (haha longgone), at least in the sm community that I'm observing now kpce i made my point
    Last edited by stargroup100; 02-20-2013, 10:40 AM.
    Rhythm Simulation Guide
    Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

    Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music

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    • stargroup100
      behanjc & me are <3'ers
      FFR Simfile Author
      FFR Music Producer
      • Jul 2006
      • 2051

      #227
      Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

      also I did say I didn't want this to degenerate into drama and this is borderline touching it so let's plz not reach a point where my pee-pee goes back inside of me thx
      Rhythm Simulation Guide
      Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

      Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music

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      • swordmasterz
        FFR Player
        • May 2006
        • 272

        #228
        Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

        it's okay guys

        it's comforting to know that at the end of the day people are still gonna be playing Reach's Gigadelic and your file will be collecting dust in a folder somewhere

        ~funfactormanias~
        o

        Comment

        • AlexDest
          good hot
          FFR Simfile Author
          • Sep 2007
          • 5309

          #229
          Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

          StepMania

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          • stargroup100
            behanjc & me are <3'ers
            FFR Simfile Author
            FFR Music Producer
            • Jul 2006
            • 2051

            #230
            Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

            ROFL

            also id like to say that wc is like one of my most favorite people in this community despite this old running joke where i hate on him LOL
            Rhythm Simulation Guide
            Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

            Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music

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            • kommisar
              Dark Chancellor
              FFR Simfile Author
              FFR Music Producer
              • Jun 2005
              • 7324

              #231
              Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

              Bufang do you actually think I give a shit about anything that's been said in here lmao







































              I seriously don't. I do what's fun for me which is the purpose of a game. I could
              Give less of a fuck about theories and technicality. Nobody will ever agree with anything anyways

              Comment

              • TC_Halogen
                Rhythm game specialist.
                FFR Simfile Author
                FFR Music Producer
                • Feb 2008
                • 19376

                #232
                Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

                Another point of discussion: is it necessarily a bad thing if a simfile artist possesses the capability of creating something that would be considered "masterful" in its purest form, but doesn't? I'm actually asking this as a person who knows they have an understanding of the construction, structure, and technical elements that make up a good file. When it comes to simfiling, I have trouble understanding what is "fun" because I like to see myself as a really high-level player that pushes boundaries, and my files tend to do the same thing. As a current example, I'm stepping Tendon by Igorrr:



                In technicality, everything here is accounted for, and technically isn't overstepped, but it's quite obvious that the patterns are really rigid (and intended to be as such). When do we draw the line of being correct to the point of being "unfun", when "fun factor" is truly a subjective term? Some files considered "artful" feel right, but aren't always enjoyable to me -- for example (not a personal shot at you stargroup), I was never a huge fan of Castaway, which is a great file on a structural level. At the same time, something like dondon151's Break the Sword of Justice v2 Beginner file is something intended to have poor structure and be hard is a lot more enjoyable to me.

                It's so hard to find a great balance. Where's moches? He always seems to find the medium for me (Micro Media Broth, holyfok <3).

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                • stargroup100
                  behanjc & me are <3'ers
                  FFR Simfile Author
                  FFR Music Producer
                  • Jul 2006
                  • 2051

                  #233
                  Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

                  Originally posted by kommisar
                  idc
                  shrug suit yourself bro

                  Originally posted by TC_Halogen
                  stuff
                  there's no concrete answer to that question, because what you're asking is partially a matter of taste, and therefore style becomes a huge factor

                  for example, people like mi40 and torrent love their dnb and stuff, and while they do make some really great stuff, they're not my cup of tea simply because I find dnb songs very tiring and grating to listen to, and the charting style associated with it is a bit rigid for my tastes

                  in my opinion, what makes a chart "masterful" is its awareness to everything. it needs to not only demonstrate a good ear that is capable of picking up on both the details in the song as well as the "essence" of the song as a whole, but also the ability to somehow demonstrate this through the notes. this is why I think kil is the undisputed master of charting; he has one of the best ears in terms of interpretation of the music, and his execution in the chart itself is pretty much flawless. it is extremely difficult for someone to take one of his charts and say "I can do that better" and live up to their word

                  but just as this is the case, not everyone has a taste for his style, and with good reason. some people don't appreciate his skills because they either don't understand and/or they don't care, and there's nothing wrong with that. I resonate strongly with the charting medium as an art form, so that's where I lean and it determines how all of this affects me. however, other players might see it as a competitive game, for example, and in this case importance is placed on difficulty, not artistry

                  so there's really no easy way to answer this question. it's basically "you can't please everyone." it just depends on what your target audience is, and as long as you can please your target audience, you can consider yourself successful

                  also, there's a difference between liking something and acknowledging quality. there are a lot of "subpar" charts out there that I love playing, just as there's a lot of "crappy" food out there that I love eating. I know it's not good, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy it. similarly, there's a lot of quality music/charts/food out there that I don't enjoy, even though I understand why they are good. quality is something that is supposed to be more universal, based on that set of rules we have defined for art, but personal taste is just whatever you like
                  Last edited by stargroup100; 02-20-2013, 11:30 AM.
                  Rhythm Simulation Guide
                  Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

                  Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music

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                  • hi19hi19
                    lol happy
                    FFR Simfile Author
                    • Oct 2005
                    • 12194

                    #234
                    Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

                    What the fuck is this thread


                    You guys


                    Comment

                    • Roar176
                      FFR Player
                      • Aug 2008
                      • 235

                      #235
                      Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

                      Originally posted by t-rogdor
                      this thread is dumb i quit stepmania
                      lesgo make osu maps rogman
                      (heidy)(heidy)(heidy)(heidy)(heidy)



                      (heidy)(heidy)(heidy)(heidy)(heidy)

                      get mad h8ers

                      Comment

                      • Coolboyrulez0
                        VICES
                        FFR Simfile Author
                        FFR Music Producer
                        • Aug 2006
                        • 10042

                        #236
                        Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

                        Originally posted by hi19hi19
                        What the fuck is this thread


                        You guys
                        gonna have to go with the good old autism on this one

                        ps: no one cares, fun is subjective, technicality is subjective in the long run, just step how you wish and that's it. is everyone gonna like it? fuck no.
                        mass appeal sucks anyways. lol at everyone who thinks that this is, and the discussion at hand is serious.
                        Last edited by Coolboyrulez0; 02-20-2013, 12:04 PM.
                        https://soundcloud.com/cbrbreakcore
                        https://cbrrecords.bandcamp.com/

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                        • cedolad
                          moonchild~
                          FFR Simfile Author
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 6879

                          #237
                          Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

                          so since when does a long discussion of technicality = drama? I'm just curious who made that a rule.

                          Comment

                          • Coolboyrulez0
                            VICES
                            FFR Simfile Author
                            FFR Music Producer
                            • Aug 2006
                            • 10042

                            #238
                            Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

                            It isn't -- it's just fun to see people all riled up about the subject of technicality vs. fun
                            which arises ever-so-often and always ends up inconclusive due to peoples pre-convinced notions about simfiling.
                            Last edited by Coolboyrulez0; 02-20-2013, 12:20 PM.
                            https://soundcloud.com/cbrbreakcore
                            https://cbrrecords.bandcamp.com/

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                            • intensez
                              FFR Player
                              • Mar 2007
                              • 944

                              #239
                              Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

                              pr technicality and etc came around when stepping used to be a group of elitists (which also had packs that really no one could submit to unless you're one of them) and if you made a file and made a single file thread about it it was generally all about how bad it was or that you suck at file making. plus the ONLY information you could get about how they made their ~good files~ was if you went into the editor and figured it out yourself on their files from other packs (odi, odi2, ppp, ppp2, etc)

                              there wasn't actual criticism or any information telling you why it was bad. i know all of this because i was getting into stepping a few months before odi2 came out and i remember i hated releasing any files b/c i never got real criticism about them

                              Comment

                              • cedolad
                                moonchild~
                                FFR Simfile Author
                                • Jan 2007
                                • 6879

                                #240
                                Re: FFR Community Pack 4 Released!

                                Originally posted by Coolboyrulez0
                                It isn't -- it's just fun to see people all riled up about the subject of technicality vs. fun
                                which arises ever-so-often and always ends up inconclusive due to peoples pre-convinced notions about simfiling.
                                cute.

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