attn elitists

[stargroup100]

Re: attn elitists

WORKIN ON IT OK

gawsh

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Re: attn elitists

This thread is gold

[ScylaX]

Re: attn elitists

c4n't s93ll 3l1tEEST w1th0u7 "3L1T3"

h4h

[moches]

Re: attn elitists

i am a changed man

o.o

[Charlo]

Re: attn elitists

I can't figure out how threads like this don't just get deleted. I guess it's part of the board "culture" to post blatant nonsense and spam in order to fit in.

To address the OP's point, packs should only be organized/judged by people who understand what a good simfile is. Nobody wants to play a pack of badly-synced or badly-stepped files. But there are a lot of packs where the criteria for getting a file accepted are out of reach for most casual simfile creators. This might encourage some to get better, but it's probably more likely that they stop making simfiles or just don't release them here. The payoff is that we all get to play packs which are essentially perfect. I don't bother submitting to packs very often because I know I have to modify my style in order to homogenize with everybody else (...to a degree, I'm not saying that everybody has the same style, because they don't).

I think only a few people go way overboard with the elitism thing. It wouldn't be a problem except that packs are the only way to release files if you want people to actually play them. Bemanistyle's old DB and the old FFR DB were cesspools simply because there were no standards, but at least people would download your stuff (my terrible early files were downloaded several hundred times!).

Oh wait, that was too many words and they were spelled with too much accuracy, hold on:

LoL stepmania who plays that
i did yur mom rofl jK i <3 u all

[ScylaX]

Re: attn elitists

To address the OP's point, packs should only be organized/judged by people who understand what a good simfile is. Nobody wants to play a pack of badly-synced or badly-stepped files.

I think it's currently better for the community to promote initiatives instead of detering/dissuading it. May it be bad or even awful.
People will may not play a pack of bad files but the community still has a good idea of what a good file is and what isn't. It's not like "making actually good files" was a practice that people should be afraid for it to disappear one day.

The community passed through eras of elitism and inactivity because nothing really encouraged simfile making ; now that things are somehow improving, it's just not the time to bitch about the quality of a pack when an initiative is taken. It's why qqwref's post is so difficult to deal with. If people don't want to play it that's fine, at least just let it be. If you want to make a SUPER QUALITY GOLDEN PACK then go on, nothing prevents you from launching the project and I don't think anybody will have something to say about it (look at the Utmost Excellence MiniPacks).
We just don't want your personal tastes of "what a simfile should be" hinders other projects. Just focus on creating and innovating instead of complaining about how it sucks when other try to create because it doesn't respect some factors. That's what this thread is about.

tl;dr let's focus on what's positive instead of indefinitely create hostilities
I mean it's a simple as that.

[Choofers]

Re: attn elitists

stepmania

[kommisar]

Re: attn elitists

Haha Bufang you have never been so wrong in your life.


We've discussed the reasons why elitism can lead a community to achieve great things. The purpose of having experienced people judge and criticize files is exactly because they are more experienced and can show others guidelines on how to step properly.


Or you can be lenient and have white noise files thrown together with no coherent structure and lazy composition in every pack.

[moches]

Re: attn elitists

Haha Bufang you have never been so wrong in your life.


We've discussed the reasons why elitism can lead a community to achieve great things. The purpose of having experienced people judge and criticize files is exactly because they are more experienced and can show others guidelines on how to step properly.


Or you can be lenient and have white noise files thrown together with no coherent structure and lazy composition in every pack.

that doesn't mean you just stop everybody else under some standard of qualification (and how exactly is this determined again?) when they're clearly trying to contribute something they want to share with the community. does that mean that we just applaud every effort blindly without a critical viewpoint? no. it means that you respect what they're trying to do and leave it be if you're not going to contribute anything yourself.

I was 13 years old when I made FFR Community Pack, and given the ridiculous hostility and shitbagging I got from most of the regulars around the community at the time, that's probably the only reason I managed to finish it. was it good? not really (though certainly not terrible either). was it well-received? hell no. did completing the project make me and others who may have been participating in a community project for the first time? absolutely. my point is that not everybody pops out of the ~magical Stepmania vagina~ with a fully formed concept of what quality is. but as veterans, people who have likely been through the same shit before rising to positions of respect, we've got to let them try, damn it.

not all of this has to do with this specific instance, of course, but I feel that getting away from an overarching atmosphere in the Stepmania community where it's a small circle of people running the show with newcomers just standing at the sidelines because they can't get anything off the ground could be good. maybe not every pack that comes out of this is going to be as great as everything that came out of the so-called Golden Age. but even my 12-year-old dumb self got somewhere eventually. I think it's fair to give others a shot. just my two cents.

tl;dr let's focus on what's positive instead of indefinitely create hostilities
I mean it's a simple as that.

yeah this too

[moches]

Re: attn elitists

by the way you don't have to be an asshat to criticize people. which is a common false dichotomy people seem to make for some reason

[jimerax]

Re: attn elitists

only agreeing with this if elitism means "despising people who are less-skilled/experienced" or "refusing anything that don't match your policy", aka just mindless attitude in general.

[intensez]

Re: attn elitists

hurdur i stpe bttr than u there4 i am a btter persun than u ps suk my long arrow

[Nullifidian]

Re: attn elitists

I agree and disagree with your summarized points.

A power user (elitist) will in fact lead a majority of the community to one particular direction which they believe is the "proper" way to play the game. The problem then comes that when everyone starts playing the same way it discourages the idea to play it differently, whether they see it as inferior or cheating/cheap as determined by the community. Normal users don't figure out their own strategies and just copy the power users.

Elitism doesn't necessarily mean ONE WAY BEST WAY. A good judge should see the merits of multiple ways of approaching a file and judges accordingly regardless of his/her preferences.

[FFR4EVA_00]

Re: attn elitists

Why Are You Even Playing This Game If You're Not Good At This Game

[Untimely Friction]

Re: attn elitists

I'll honestly admit in my 6 years here I've wanted to, and have stepped several files, but decided not to upload them, and scrapped them, expecting to simply be laughed as for as moches said not popping out of the ~Magical Stepmania Vagina~.

Stuff like QQwref said would really dissuade me from wanting to make files in fear that comments like that would be shot at me for even trying. I know I should be able to accept criticism, and as should we all but when it comes from someone with a pretty colored name any new user attempting a project as could have been entirely possible with that dump pack might just pack their bags and leave.

I don't actually see many people helping new steppers and in a one on one stance guiding them what kinds of things work and don't. THey may in PM and if so thats private for a reason, but the community concensus is that this elitism exists and it's detrimental to the revival and re-growing of the community.

So cut the shit brahs.