attn elitists

[moches]

Re: attn elitists

I'll honestly admit in my 6 years here I've wanted to, and have stepped several files, but decided not to upload them, and scrapped them, expecting to simply be laughed as for as moches said not popping out of the ~Magical Stepmania Vagina~.

Stuff like QQwref said would really dissuade me from wanting to make files in fear that comments like that would be shot at me for even trying. I know I should be able to accept criticism, and as should we all but when it comes from someone with a pretty colored name any new user attempting a project as could have been entirely possible with that dump pack might just pack their bags and leave.

I don't actually see many people helping new steppers and in a one on one stance guiding them what kinds of things work and don't. THey may in PM and if so thats private for a reason, but the community concensus is that this elitism exists and it's detrimental to the revival and re-growing of the community.

So cut the shit brahs.

there was actually an attempt to connect veterans with up-and-coming stepartists (known as Stepmania University lmao). unfortunately, FFR hit a year-long hiatus right when it was taking off so it never happened.

I suspect your experience may be far more common than you expect, but I would encourage you to put your stuff out there. there are a lot of people here who would be more than willing to give you feedback...I actually think the environment has gotten much better for newcomers than it was at the peak of our elitist period.

and in any case, your experience is precisely why I will never buy into elitism, at least not as the driving force of the community. too many people get lost.

[AlexDest]

Re: attn elitists

you can never step another if you know not how to step yourself

[FFR4EVA_00]

Re: attn elitists

but like
qqwref isn't even good at anything
why are you guys so worried about him

[kommisar]

Re: attn elitists

gotta take criticism from people who have made files that a lot of people like to be able to have a sense of how to make files yourself.


don't be QED and say your files are perfect when nobody likes them either.


that's not to say there aren't different way to make simfiles and you should be strictly limited to what people tell you, but veterans can give you guidelines that will help you structure a file properly.

[HST]

Re: attn elitists

cheet

[V-Ormix]

Re: attn elitists

[iCeCuBEz v2]

Re: attn elitists

stepmania: serious business

[stargroup100]

Re: attn elitists

sigh goddammit do I actually have to explain myself

fuck it I'm too lazy let's have you guys do it for me

part of what I meant was this:

don't be QED and say your files are perfect when nobody likes them either.

also I agree with this:

We've discussed the reasons why elitism can lead a community to achieve great things. The purpose of having experienced people judge and criticize files is exactly because they are more experienced and can show others guidelines on how to step properly.

but in response to that is this:

People will may not play a pack of bad files but the community still has a good idea of what a good file is and what isn't. It's not like "making actually good files" was a practice that people should be afraid for it to disappear one day.

The community passed through eras of elitism and inactivity because nothing really encouraged simfile making ; now that things are somehow improving, it's just not the time to bitch about the quality of a pack when an initiative is taken.

tl;dr let's focus on what's positive instead of indefinitely create hostilities
I mean it's a simple as that.

ps scylax you win the thread have all of my gooey love nuggets

scylax 2013

[TC_Halogen]

Re: attn elitists

I was 13 years old when I made FFR Community Pack, and given the ridiculous hostility and shitbagging I got from most of the regulars around the community at the time, that's probably the only reason I managed to finish it. was it good? not really (though certainly not terrible either). was it well-received? hell no. did completing the project make me and others who may have been participating in a community project for the first time? absolutely. my point is that not everybody pops out of the ~magical Stepmania vagina~ with a fully formed concept of what quality is. but as veterans, people who have likely been through the same shit before rising to positions of respect, we've got to let them try, damn it.

not all of this has to do with this specific instance, of course, but I feel that getting away from an overarching atmosphere in the Stepmania community where it's a small circle of people running the show with newcomers just standing at the sidelines because they can't get anything off the ground could be good. maybe not every pack that comes out of this is going to be as great as everything that came out of the so-called Golden Age. but even my 12-year-old dumb self got somewhere eventually. I think it's fair to give others a shot. just my two cents.

moches, I love you <3

[kommisar]

Re: attn elitists

the problem with elitism during 2007-2009 is that the elite didn't share any information on how to step files and kept everything within their circlejerk of stepmans aka dark chancellas.


then nobody was makin files and people were leaving


then the elite started teaching people how to step files


now there are tons of excellent simfile artists. I don't think things are too bad right now.

[stargroup100]

Re: attn elitists

I don't know if any of you noticed, but notecharting history in terms of its development is very much parallel to that of western music

"renaissance" period - in music, this is when people start to experiment with very basic ideas such as harmony and polyphony. music was really simple, consisting of only a couple of melody lines at most. in charting this like back in the days of hyrogashi fuckin notepad sim edit fuckin fuck

"baroque" period - here, music starts to make sense. some basic rules were established that allowed it to be very structured. here, we introduce basic concepts of proper sync and layering. first few ffr charts that were on sync fall in this category

"classical" period - some of the stuff in the baroque period was too complex, so classical composers made catchy tunes that would appeal more to the public. this is when people first started to think about what patterns would be the most fun, and very simple, technical charts were made. this is the era of rebirth and hi19. though kil and a couple others were already doing super insane stuff well beyond this time, which we consider the "classics"

"romantic" period - music starts to get complex. lots of chords and fancy rhythms, some pieces highly expressive, others highly technical. here is where we get our really really hard charts that are still actually legitimate. such as glove's files, reach's files, pretty much the era of odi

"modern" period - music starts to challenge the fundamentals. people start to try lots of crazy stuff to just try it and break away from standard procedures. music is pushed to its extremes, ranging anywhere from highly dissonant sounds, neo-classical, or even silence. this is equivalent to kil's newer stuff, my newer stuff, aaand I stopped following stepmania around this time

"postmodern" period - this is where we are now. most everything has already been done. people understand what makes a good chart, the same way how people nowadays understand what good music is. everyone is making music now, combining all sorts of techniques and fusions of styles from all over the world. people started to break away from the modernist music because it sounded to snobby and elitist. now we just need to focus on making fun charts with what we know. if some people want to continue pushing the limits and boundaries on charting, sure, let them do it. but for those who don't care about critical acclaim, let them do what they want, and you'll have a world chock full of fun music to listen to-er I mean charts to play

[FFR4EVA_00]

Re: attn elitists

now there are tons of excellent simfile artists. I don't think things are too bad right now.

i disagree
there are hardly that many simfile artists, and just about every single one doesn't even know the basics
you fucking make fun of people who think that files need to be on sync

[dragon890x]

Re: attn elitists

there are hardly that many simfile artists

Incorrect.

and just about every single one doesn't even know the basics

Maybe, I have seen a lot of "I need my username to be Orange" syndrome going around.

[Charu]

Re: attn elitists

I kind of like the challenge of making something that would make even veteran steppers go. "Oh... interesting." Maybe it's because I'm laid back or just used to it, but I really don't mind the harsh critics and blunt responses.

Welcome to what it's like in the real world when you make things for others.

[stargroup100]

Re: attn elitists

drove through ghosts to get here

modernism