What keeps you using 3.95?

[Leo137]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

So let me ask, is it really hard to port over old themes? To me it sounds like it's so easy to make a theme for SM5 that it would make sense to just port them over really fast.

I'm not sure how much of a port this is but misterkister was making an 3.95 inspired theme:

[Jimmymi1]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

It feels like sm5 is a cheap knockoff to sm3.95 idk sry not sry

[Kyzentun]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

of course you could be a deflecting little shit

Find somebody that you don't insult to help you. I'm not going to waste my time on someone with an insulting attitude. (this applies to basically all 3.95 players, especially those who are so ill-informed that they can't see the improvements that have been made)

[Leo137]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

i use sm5 and it lags, i just got used to it
and all my friends who tried sm5 coudln't switch because of the laggyness

sm5 is all good and neat but it seems you need a really good pc to run it smootly

[kommisar]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

sm5



sm3.95


sm5 works perfectly on my old shitty computer, but not my brand new computer despite correcting any offset and visual delay

[Izzy]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

That's basically what my scores look like between the two. I have no idea why, the game isn't lagging or anything. I simply can't time properly on sm5. It feels like the hidden timing windows are flopping around.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

Find somebody that you don't insult to help you. I'm not going to waste my time on someone with an insulting attitude. (this applies to basically all 3.95 players, especially those who are so ill-informed that they can't see the improvements that have been made)

You're talking about not insulting people, yet toss an implicit insult blanket of your own and don't even bother to listen to the fact that some of us have tried it.

The fact of the matter is, the improvements to the game client mean absolutely nothing if it doesn't benefit the players who use the game engine. Yes, StepMania 5 has a load more features, and the level of customizability behind the game is certainly unrivaled compared to previous versions. But that doesn't mean a thing if players struggle to acclimate. Remember that this is a game - if you want die-hard players to move off of currently antiquated versions, you need to help them transition and give them a reason to do so. Features are useless if the overall gameplay experience is negative.

I'll reiterate that I've suffered very similar issues to kommisar and numerous others as well, and it's also worth mentioning that kommisar was someone who was a quite devout user of SM5/sm-ssc before having this issue.

EDIT: two earlier points in this thread and I think it's worth while to mention:

You and kyz are trying to go out of your way to convert 4k keyboard players (making this thread on FFR) to sm5 and then you're like "oh we don't care if you prefer 3.95/get better scores on 3.95. the rest of the modes were broken on 3.95 so you still should switch even though you don't play those modes."

Okay the fact that you can't comprehend the concept of alternative skillsets/preferences is a telltale sign that you don't really care about accommodating the 3.95 community. Honestly it seems like you just want to make fun of a group of people using a version of the game that they personally prefer for whatever reason.

that point, coupled with the fact that you're still being condescending (along with jousway but that's nothing new tbh), and it just shows a general lack of effort to really cater to the group you're addressing. As I've said before, SM5 looks great. It's very customizable. I'd use it in a heartbeat thanks to ca25nada's incredible effort on ultralight and spawncamping-wallhack - but unfortunately, the game runs sub-optimally in terms of frame rate and my scores are far from negligibly changing, and I'm someone, like many others, who refuses to deal with that.

[Kyzentun]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

It feels like sm5 is a cheap knockoff to sm3.95 idk sry not sry

This is the kind of blatant ignorance I was talking about. If you're one of the people that has read the release notes in the last two years, you're not ill-informed. (though if you're not using an aggressively updated theme, most of the stuff in the release notes does not turn into features you can use.)

Performance is a legitimate reason to not switch. I'll look into it when I have time to spend a solid month on a painstaking risky thankless task. (thankless because ~10 people said thanks after I improved loading time in 5.0.7). For what it's worth, I get ~95 fps on my AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 840 with Radeon HD 5450 video card. (the total all-new parts cost for this computer was under $600 in 2011)
Maybe it's something dumb like the release build being built in debug mode. If that's the case, then Jousway can upload the 5.1 test build he made and you can check performance in that in his theme or mine or default. (default doesn't actually use the new features yet, I don't know of any other themes that do)

I made this thread because I was looking for trivial features that would only require an hour or two each to implement. Things that can be described clearly without resorting to "Do what 3.95 does", because I don't run 3.95, and what you think it does can be very different from what the code actually does. (Mad Matt uploaded the 3.95 source last year, so I have that, but it's not in a buildable or runnable state)
Instead, stuff suggested would require rewriting major parts of the engine and breaking theme compatibility (the edit mode rewrite suggestions). Or it's stuff that can only be done theme-side, like moving judgment/combo around. Or stuff that doesn't even make sense, like Mina's complaint that 717x616 doesn't work (If you set your aspect ratio to 1.164 and height to 616, the width is calculated to 716, close enough).

[Izzy]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

I still don't understand why my accuracy is so drastically different in sm5. I get the feeling that if I recorded my gameplay perfectly and then played it back on sm5 that it would not yield the same score. I understand that the timing windows are identical, but there is some strange implementation detail that changed.

I get 500+ fps and the game runs perfectly smooth, but I am incapable of timing my notes in sm5. I stick by my statement that it feels like the timing windows are wobbling.

I really really really want to switch to sm5, but I really really really can't if I can't play the actual game on it.

[Frank Munoz]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

...I made this thread because I was looking for trivial features that would only require an hour or two each to implement...

...Instead, stuff suggested would require rewriting major parts of the engine and breaking theme compatibility (the edit mode rewrite suggestions)...

That's just it my man, Sm5 needs too much tweaking, fixing, debugs, and maybe even rewriting for others to even consider using it.
It is literally an incomplete program that requires too much attention.

Yes, it looks nice.
...

Listen, if the majority of the rhythm gaming community gets multiple errors on the TITLE screen, there's something very very wrong.
Though there are a few fixes for most of the petite errors, no one should even have to go and download a separate .dll just to run the damn thing.

You have to understand that all this unnecessary work deters many a people from switching, and newcomers wont even know where to start.
Why would they use something that doesn't work outa the box?


Also, what halogen said is right on point.
very similar to why people still use the legacy engine for ffr rather than the amazing r3.
sure there are tons of way to customize your gaming experience but if you're already set to go on an older version, why switch?
Except here, r3 actually runs...

tl'dr
sm5 works - 40% of the time.
sm3.9 works - 85% of the time.

[Kyzentun]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

I get 500+ fps and the game runs perfectly smooth, but I am incapable of timing my notes in sm5. I stick by my statement that it feels like the timing windows are wobbling.

If you want to amuse yourself, grab a fresh checkout of Consensual. Play a song, bring up the menu on evaluation, and pick "save_column_scores". That will save precise input timing data as the theme and engine see it to a file like this in your profile folder (Save/LocalProfiles/00000000/song_scores/).
Then you can write some program to load it up and examine the data.
The data format is a lua table. Each top level entry is the score data for playing the song once, with a timestamp. Each entry in a score data field is for one column. Column 0 is the aggregate for all columns. Each individual column comes after it. The step_timings field in a
column has the timing info for each note. time is the time the note occurs at, offset is the note time subtracted from the press time (so negative offset means an early judgment). frame_deltas is the the frame deltas from two frames before to two frames after the judgment (so you can check whether your perfect occur at the same time as a spike in the frame delta). The frame delta is how long a frame took to process and render, the inverse of fps.


d3dx9_43.dll: Need to find info on whether devs are actually supposed to package that stuff or not.

Errors on the title screen: You probably broke it yourself trying to edit the theme. The default theme doesn't show any errors on the title screen. Post the error text or log files if you're going to claim errors occur.

[Izzy]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

That doesn't sound very amusing, but I'll see what I can do later.

[Kyzentun]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

Analysing the timing data probably won't reveal the source of the problem. That's why I said, "if you want to amuse yourself". But it might give you some vindication or something.

[kommisar]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

only observation i made:

ati video card: sm5 rulz

nvidia video card: sm5 sux


i'm certain there's more to it than that but from testimonies and setups i've played on this seems to be the norm.

[lurker]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

Find somebody that you don't insult to help you. I'm not going to waste my time on someone with an insulting attitude. (this applies to basically all 3.95 players, especially those who are so ill-informed that they can't see the improvements that have been made)

i was venting a bit because precision has ignored the shit out of 3 very nicely word e-mails i have sent them about this exact issue so i'm sorry if that sounded a bit rude
however, up until this point i have been completely supportive of the continued development of this game and had not used 3.95 since ssc was released so for you to take my only complaint about sm5 ever and turn it into the anonymous bitching of the "ill-informed" (i.e stupid) masses fucking irks me