What keeps you using 3.95?

[dAnceguy117]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

kyzentun:

if you decide to try to start taking input from this community again, I think what you should do is have someone else from your team act as a representative here. they can gather the comments that are constructive and filter out the ones that aren't. then, they can pass what they've got on to you in a different setting.

this would allow you to:
1) avoid seeing the kind of low-quality feedback that seems to tilt you pretty hard
2) vent your frustrations somewhere else



@ FFR folks: if you have a personal issue with someone, then as always, it's probably best to take it up via PM.

if you want to help contribute to ongoing development of sm5, you could leave a post here, but I'd say you might as well head over to stepmania.com and get involved there.



(disclaimer: I don't play anymore; these are just my thoughts after skimming some of this thread)

[Dj_Ossa]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

Well said, sir.

There needs to be a bridge between the devs and the community and someone non-biased that filters comments from attacks and gives feedback to the dev team.

[SKG_Scintill]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

the devs sound uninformed about FFR

[Frank Munoz]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

Make sm great again

In all seriousness, whatever ya choose to do (SM devs) just have fun doing it. Whether you develop on some of the problems addressed in this thread or not we still love to see activity and progress being made for a game we cherish. Sure some of us will call you out for coming in here, asking for opinions, then attempt to degrade those who have issues with sm5 that you do not experience, but hey... we aint the ones working on it.

[bboyflames]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

Kyze and Jousway somehow managed to alienate 95% on SM's userbase in this threat.

Just thought I would say a couple things:

Kyze, when you say that you won't test shit that is only for windows because windows sucks etc.... That's the MAJORITY of the community your bias is alienating. You're programming for a game that is played MOSTLY by PC players, not by your Linux fan club.

Jousway, the "ignorant keyboard players" you speak of, that's the majority of your fucking target audience, and when you guys make a threat to convince people to that SM5 is better, faster, shinier, whatever the fuck, you sure as hell better be ready for some backslash.

There ARE many reasons why people stopped updating SM after 3.9/3.95. It is not because we're dumb, Jous, it's because THE GAME FEELS DIFFERENT. I have been playing stepmania for longer than I would like to admit (okay, fuck it, 15 years) and, as a once active member of this community, I kept myself updated with the latest versions constantly. I was there when Josh and Charles released the CVS version of 3.9 and when they were very clear that it was a buggy build meant for online 4k play only.

Stepmania 4 felt odd and was buggy as shit. Stepmania 5 looks beautiful, but I just can't get myself to enjoy playing on it. I have a hard time with my timing, global offset is fucked up, I does not feel like the same game.


I am currently trying (yet again, for the 4th time) to give SM5 another go... But it's not looking good. And I always keep my 3.95 CVS handy in case I pull the plug on SM5.

I appreciate all of your help and hard work, I really do. However, if Stepmania has any chance of coming back as game and a community, we need to start focusing on gameplay rather than "look how many obscure things I can do with this file/theme."

I agree with Izzy, Stepmania Online NEEDS to be a part of this development. Take a look at osu!, the way the game works, the multiplayer rooms, song choices, available to download at the click of a button. Why can't we have this with Stepmania? Charles and Josh stopped working on the SMO server script years ago, hoku added important features (and now he's gone)... Why don't you guys pick up where they left off and modernize Stepmania so that it's actually a suitable multiplayer game for this day and age?

I understand the importance of the SSC team in keeping Stepmania alive. But remember that the thing that's kept this game alive for so long is the same thing you two are trying to alienate in this thread; community.

Hopefully we can do something to ensure this game we all love and respect begins to grow again, in a positive way.

Until then, don't complain if people prefer the buggy playable past over the shiny new things that doesn't feel like our game.

Ossa, I'd just like to say you have pretty much hit the nail on the head with why I still use SM 3.95. Nice to see you still posting btw. We should hit up an SMO session sometime. Cheers bud!

[Jousway]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

Kyze and Jousway somehow managed to alienate 95% on SM's userbase in this threat.

wow thanks for proofing me right, another great example of being an ignorant player, there are a ton of pad players that play stepmania on pad, heck the piu stuff in south america is p big I would more say 50% is sm keyboard user base as in ffr because thats excluding a bunch of asian and south american communities because they mostly play pad or piu but what do I expect from a ignorant MURICAN huehue

Just thought I would say a couple things:

Kyze, when you say that you won't test shit that is only for windows because windows sucks etc.... That's the MAJORITY of the community your bias is alienating. You're programming for a game that is played MOSTLY by PC players, not by your Linux fan club.

lawl calling windows "PC" o ok, anyways kyz is a linux developer its his own choice to not use windows there is nothing forcing him to use/develop for windows most people that work on stepmania make stuff for them selfs and besides why would he care about shitty little ignorant children like you that go HERPDERP 3.95 IS BEST EVER FAPFAPFAPFAP, its just not worth anyones time

Jousway, the "ignorant keyboard players" you speak of, that's the majority of your fucking target audience, and when you guys make a threat to convince people to that SM5 is better, faster, shinier, whatever the fuck, you sure as hell better be ready for some backslash.

read top part, also HERP DERP GUYS CHECK MY SCORE HOW BIG IS MY E-PENIS NOW? HUEHUE, remember when stepmania was about fun and not fucking scores, I do rip.

There ARE many reasons why people stopped updating SM after 3.9/3.95. It is not because we're dumb, Jous, it's because THE GAME FEELS DIFFERENT. I have been playing stepmania for longer than I would like to admit (okay, fuck it, 15 years) and, as a once active member of this community, I kept myself updated with the latest versions constantly. I was there when Josh and Charles released the CVS version of 3.9 and when they were very clear that it was a buggy build meant for online 4k play only.

Stepmania 4 felt odd and was buggy as shit. Stepmania 5 looks beautiful, but I just can't get myself to enjoy playing on it. I have a hard time with my timing, global offset is fucked up, I does not feel like the same game.

its just a slight timing you need to get used to and a ton of people have, its like switching from beatmania to lr2 its diffrent but calling the game shit (which some people do not saying u do) because its HERPDERP NOT THE SAME is stupid and I find it ignorant if people say 3.95 is "better" because its obvious not, its a random broken pull from the source code just to make online work, how is a broken version like that better, do people like insulting the devs that much?

I am currently trying (yet again, for the 4th time) to give SM5 another go... But it's not looking good. And I always keep my 3.95 CVS handy in case I pull the plug on SM5.

I appreciate all of your help and hard work, I really do. However, if Stepmania has any chance of coming back as game and a community, we need to start focusing on gameplay rather than "look how many obscure things I can do with this file/theme."

I agree with Izzy, Stepmania Online NEEDS to be a part of this development. Take a look at osu!, the way the game works, the multiplayer rooms, song choices, available to download at the click of a button. Why can't we have this with Stepmania? Charles and Josh stopped working on the SMO server script years ago, hoku added important features (and now he's gone)... Why don't you guys pick up where they left off and modernize Stepmania so that it's actually a suitable multiplayer game for this day and age?

meanwhile osu has spyware that takes screenshots of your pc LOLOLOLOLOLOL
anyways sm6 is going to be a complete overhaul in a different engine, so expect better online functionality, it wont be sm5 or 3.95 so the timing will be different again but hey who cares, we all know how you guys are going to react already

I understand the importance of the SSC team in keeping Stepmania alive. But remember that the thing that's kept this game alive for so long is the same thing you two are trying to alienate in this thread; community.

one person from the SSC even gave up on sm becasue of how toxic this and a few other communities are, just sayin

Hopefully we can do something to ensure this game we all love and respect begins to grow again, in a positive way.

Until then, don't complain if people prefer the buggy playable past over the shiny new things that doesn't feel like our game.

like I said, its like comparing beatmania to lr2 the timing is different and you just have to get use to it, but sticking to an inferior broken version just blows my mind, even 3.9+ makes more sense

[MinaciousGrace]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

most people that play stepmania play for them selfs and besides why would we care about shitty little ignorant children like you that go HERPDERP SM5 IS BEST EVER FAPFAPFAPFAP, its just not worth anyones time

yeah you nailed it

[TC_Halogen]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

At the risk of wasting my time, being that I know we absolutely do not get along:

meanwhile osu has spyware that takes screenshots of your pc LOLOLOLOLOLOL
anyways sm6 is going to be a complete overhaul in a different engine, so expect better online functionality, it wont be sm5 or 3.95 so the timing will be different again but hey who cares, we all know how you guys are going to react alreadywow thanks for proofing me right, another great example of being an ignorant player, there are a ton of pad players that play stepmania on pad, heck the piu stuff in south america is p big I would more say 50% is sm keyboard user base as in ffr because thats excluding a bunch of asian and south american communities because they mostly play pad or piu but what do I expect from a ignorant MURICAN huehue

While I will agree with there being some ignorance in that post being that you do speak the truth of players using SM5 for playing pad (in addition to being a phenomenal tool for PIU charting, it's even crossed into ITG at this point), you have to realize that the point isn't quite as applicable when you're talking about players who are likely using the game engine for different reasons than the context within this thread. 95% of the entire userbase is certainly not correct. But, realize that Kyzentun and anyone else that came into this thread are the ones who started this conversation in this community. You can't expect people to be aware of the happenings of the other uses for SM5 when this community has spent as long as they have using the game as a keyboard sim. Which leads me to my next point:

read top part, also HERP DERP GUYS CHECK MY SCORE HOW BIG IS MY E-PENIS NOW? HUEHUE, remember when stepmania was about fun and not fucking scores, I do rip.

[...]

its just a slight timing you need to get used to and a ton of people have, its like switching from beatmania to lr2 its diffrent but calling the game shit (which some people do not saying u do) because its HERPDERP NOT THE SAME is stupid and I find it ignorant if people say 3.95 is "better" because its obvious not, its a random broken pull from the source code just to make online work, how is a broken version like that better, do people like insulting the devs that much?

[...]

like I said, its like comparing beatmania to lr2 the timing is different and you just have to get use to it, but sticking to an inferior broken version just blows my mind, even 3.9+ makes more sense

A few things here:

- You're not in the competitive scene, and this is incredibly insulting to people who are using the StepMania platform to play at exceptionally high levels. Remember which community you're trying to talk to when making these points.

- I'm going to make a pretty fair comparison for those who are so adapted to 3.95 to those who play FPS-games at a reasonably high level. When a FPS game has been around for a while and involves competitive play against other players, you'll likely have adapted settings for your particular machine that you will not change so long as you don't have to. You're not going to randomly change your mouse sensitivities/keybinds/monitor after being adapted to them for years, because it's going to inhibit your play. Those who play StepMania at these levels likely have adapted themselves to a particular noteskin, a speedmod specifically for that theme, basic modifications/optimizations to those themes, and even as far as customizable resolutions (as MinaciousGrace has said). What seems like a slight change to you is not going to be the same as someone who has played in a specific environment at their peak level, especially at the competitive level. I can vouch for the fact that MinaciousGrace has put a retarded amount of time in optimizing his play.

- Another reason worth keeping 3.95 as a build is that players have the ability to use the editor to place 192nd notes. Players who only specialize in pad play won't realize the importance of that hyper-precise quantize, whereas keyboard stepartists use them frequently for accenting in a way that is negligibly accurate within the timing window. Also keep in mind that, while broken, it was still more than usable enough by most players to create custom noteskins and themes that were also usable with the experimental online features. Timing is key here.

- Very few players in this community, if anyone at all, took well to StepMania 4 when it came out, and the gap in time between StepMania 4 and the introductory development to sm-ssc was rather large; what were players supposed to do? Completely change their environment to something so incredibly unoptimized and different (and in my personal experiences at the time, something incredibly unstable?)

The community is not out to insult the developers in the slightest, but you need to realize: it's going to take an extremely smooth transition to get players from 3.95 over to 5 out of their own volition, because they've been using it for so long and likely have no -real- reason to switch since they can play just about all of the competitive content out there (that, and most content creators have embraced the fact that these players exist and won't step proprietarily for SM5 in the first place).

anyways sm6 is going to be a complete overhaul in a different engine, so expect better online functionality, it wont be sm5 or 3.95 so the timing will be different again but hey who cares, we all know how you guys are going to react already

Making the assumption that the community is going to not even give it a shot is a bit ridiculous. The term "the customer is always right" is rather applicable here when you replace the word customer with players - their reasons are always valuable to at least one person, and that's themselves, regardless of how stupid the are. They have the ability to make the choice whether or not they want to use your product (your game), regardless of your efforts. Also, you don't exactly have to adhere to players and their specific timing concerns, but you should provide them with a medium to legitimately compete over other games too. Didn't PIU Prime introduce a "ranked" mode that tightened the timing windows up a bit that was separate from the normal windows you'd have in actual play? That could be a great thing to think about.

But honestly... seeking questions from the community was a good start by you guys, but the consistently vehement disagreements and ad hominem towards this particular community is really stupid, considering the fact that you guys came to us with questions. If you want to be irritated towards us making stupid requests out of our own volition (not that it's the most advised thing to do, but whatever), that's fine -- but when we're coming up with what we have as concerns within our particular community and you treat us like our opinions do not matter, you can't really expect to be received well.

[icontrolyourworld]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

wow thanks for proofing me right, another great example of being an ignorant player, there are a ton of pad players that play stepmania on pad, heck the piu stuff in south america is p big I would more say 50% is sm keyboard user base as in ffr because thats excluding a bunch of asian and south american communities because they mostly play pad or piu but what do I expect from a ignorant MURICAN huehue

You're missing the point entirely. You guys came to ffr, asked for advice, ffr gave it to you and you didn't like it.

lawl calling windows "PC" o ok, anyways kyz is a linux developer its his own choice to not use windows there is nothing forcing him to use/develop for windows most people that work on stepmania make stuff for them selfs and besides why would he care about shitty little ignorant children like you that go HERPDERP 3.95 IS BEST EVER FAPFAPFAPFAP, its just not worth anyones time

I'm not discrediting kyz for working on sm5, but there is a clear disconnect between his game and players who use 3.9/3.95. And it's not about one game being better than the other, it's about preference.

read top part, also HERP DERP GUYS CHECK MY SCORE HOW BIG IS MY E-PENIS NOW? HUEHUE, remember when stepmania was about fun and not fucking scores, I do rip.

Sorry that people like something you don't like.

its just a slight timing you need to get used to and a ton of people have, its like switching from beatmania to lr2 its diffrent but calling the game shit (which some people do not saying u do) because its HERPDERP NOT THE SAME is stupid and I find it ignorant if people say 3.95 is "better" because its obvious not, its a random broken pull from the source code just to make online work, how is a broken version like that better, do people like insulting the devs that much?

How can you be this upset that people still use 3.95 especially if the reasons are clear as to why they do not change. And i'll reiterate that it's a preference thing. I like playing on 3.95/3.9's default theme, others like the timing window better or can't switch at all because it's awkward and uncomfortable. And some people don't like the fact that you have to go out of your way to ask how to get all the stuff from appdata into 1 folder because not everyone knows how to do that. Along with any other factors to switching over. Etc.

meanwhile osu has spyware that takes screenshots of your pc LOLOLOLOLOLOL
anyways sm6 is going to be a complete overhaul in a different engine, so expect better online functionality, it wont be sm5 or 3.95 so the timing will be different again but hey who cares, we all know how you guys are going to react already

Looking forward to it man

one person from the SSC even gave up on sm becasue of how toxic this and a few other communities are, just sayin

Sorry words hurt so much, i have no control over if other people take things the wrong way. Let's strawman, as far as I can see no one has said "SM5 is shit, the devs are shit and bad people and should stop working on SM5." or anything along those lines in this thread. Feedback was asked for, given, and taken the wrong way or outright ignored entirely because our community is shit, bad people, and should quit liking what we like.

like I said, its like comparing beatmania to lr2 the timing is different and you just have to get use to it, but sticking to an inferior broken version just blows my mind, even 3.9+ makes more sense

3.9+ is not as accessible, you can't find links for it easily, most players don't even know it exists. Additionally there's like 1 theme theme for it, and no online features. At the end of the day it boils down to peoples guess what: personal preference, and sm5 does not accommodate to these preferences.

And I'll say this again and again: I think it is great that someone is working on SM to make it the best game it can be. I'm happy that you guys are making the game accommodate your personal preferences in what you would like to see in the game, and that other people automatically switch over because it matches their preferences too. Keep up the great work, and don't let anyone else hold you back from what you want to do.

[Jimmymi1]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

its a spiritual ting

[cedolad]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

Damn kids

[SKG_Scintill]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

Why can't scores and fun go together?

[SKG_Scintill]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

I remember a time when stepmania was about having fun AND getting scores

[SKG_Scintill]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

I even have fun watching streams and videos of other people getting scores

[Walrusizer]

Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

how dare people play for scores HOW DARE THEY