Is it wrong to be racist?

[Vendetta21]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

Also you've talked a lot about how I (and others) have our heads up our asses but I've read what you have to say and I cannot in any way find it meaningful or relevant to my life where I interact with probably over a hundred people of a race other than mine a day.

[Vendetta21]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

Racism is sometimes correct. Also so is Marxism. And liberals are sometimes correct. But so are conservatives.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

incorrect

btw lmfao it isn't arcane. do you even know what the word means? actually defend your statements rather than making hollow statements. give me one example of something i've said that's arcane in scope.

"where I interact with probably over a hundred people of a race other than mine a day."
--Didn't I tell you earlier to learn Bayes Rule? Go learn it.

"but seriously if any person just tries to proceed by accepting that person as a unique individual rather than as a part of some distinct group with homogeneous characteristics I guarantee you that you will fair better than trying to use an aggregate of statistics because honestly the amount of information you would need to know to make the latter strategy remotely effective is probably an entire university library."
--And this is exactly the cliche, naive conclusion most people try to make in a utopian fashion. world doesn't work that way, sport. you're also misinterpreting the argument. the idea isn't to "approach people you meet on a day to day basis with statistics in mind for decision making." if that's what you've seriously drawn from my arguments, then you really *are* thick.

the point of the statistical explanation i gave earlier was to explain that racial differences, even if not biological, exist. Even on a case-by-case basis given sufficient randomization, you're going to experience the same thing. Racism won't go away because you snap your fingers and hope everyone gets along. It won't go away because you tell people it's "wrong" -- even if people agree with it. People are racist and are inherently so because of inevitable and unavoidable generalizations which are, at the core, true.


Seriously, give me ONE response that shows me you have some shred of intelligence. Feel free to even construct a sample scenario, or pick one specific point I've made. You don't even have to address everything. Just prove to me you're worth continuing this discussion with.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

Racism is sometimes correct. Also so is Marxism. And liberals are sometimes correct. But so are conservatives.

And yet the frequencies to which these things are sometimes are correct are very different.

[Vendetta21]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

the point of the statistical explanation i gave earlier was to explain that racial differences, even if not biological, exist. Even on a case-by-case basis given sufficient randomization, you're going to experience the same thing. Racism won't go away because you snap your fingers and hope everyone gets along. It won't go away because you tell people it's "wrong" -- even if people agree with it. People are racist and are inherently so because of inevitable and unavoidable generalizations which are, at the core, true.

Dude no one is disagreeing with this we're saying it's irrelevant. Okay so about thirty asians come into my work throughout the day tell me some information I can use to help me interact with them and understand them.

[Ownajew]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

Racism will never be removed, unless in a million years when all the races are mixed to the point that everyone is of one colour, shape and form. It is just the natural tendency of people to seek out and populate their own kind compared to other people, especially if they are different racially. Ever feel intimidated when certain people walk onto a bus or a shopping mall near you? Well thats just selfish genes talking, and shows what humans really are made of.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

You may think your idea of "not being racist" is just being equally kind to your black and Asian buddies when you hang out.

But you have to look at it on a societal level, where finance and education run the lifeblood of things. What do you think the solution is to firms that have to make hiring decisions? What about admissions to colleges? Scholarships? Access to schooling? Health care? What about crime and poverty?

Do you think it's "wrong" to be racist, here?

[Vendetta21]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

You may think your idea of "not being racist" is just being equally kind to your black and Asian buddies when you hang out.

But you have to look at it on a societal level, where finance and education run the lifeblood of things. What do you think the solution is to firms that have to make hiring decisions? What about admissions to colleges? Scholarships? Access to schooling? Health care? What about crime and poverty?

Do you think it's "wrong" to be racist, here?

Not at all but once again armchair policy-maker that isn't what I'm trying to talk about. Word of the day is tangential. It's where there's a curve and you draw a line that goes off the curve.

I gave you a simple situation that you asked me to give you that I actually experience in my life and you have nothing to respond with. Great pragmatic philosophy on racism in one's own life.

Seriously dude, just accept that we're talking about two ENTIRELY different things and that you're railroading your pet domain where you are well versed with a lot of expertise in order to sound smart even though it is just barely relevant.

Also my idea of not being "racist" in the vernacular sense is trying to judge/socialize/react-to people based on their behavior towards me, not being nice to my Black and Asian buddies.

If somebody steals my bike doesn't matter where they come from or what they look like they're a bike-stealer and therefore I don't really like them.

And I have no idea why I have to look at it on a level where from a Bayesian perspective I have negligible impact.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

"If somebody steals my bike doesn't matter where they come from or what they look like they're a bike-stealer and therefore I don't really like them."

Strong words for a man who speaks with hindsight.

What about if you had different locations to store your bike? One in a black neighborhood, one in a white? What about if you were the manager making hiring decisions, and most of your qualified candidates weren't black? Likewise for college admissions? What about going the other direction and increasing diversity in the face of meritocracy?

It's easy to say racism is wrong when you're not the one needing to make the call. It's not as ****ing black and white as you're making it out to be.

[Vendetta21]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

http://lesswrong.com/lw/1lo/high_status_and_stupidity_why/

[Izzy]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

Arguing about two different things never solves anything...

[qqwref]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

Still goes back to what I said before, no reason to ignore the trends, as long as you realize that trends is all they are.

PS: Thanks for mentioning Guns, Germs, and Steel, whoever did. I'm not much into heading over to the library and actually reading a book, but I watched the documentary today, and it was pretty damn enlightening.

[ledwix]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

I don't even need to read whatever you're about to say -- it's probably wrong.

I'm out of this thread, PEAAACEE

Incredibly arrogant post here. I agree with your arguments, but do you have to throw in all the purposeless insults to perpetuate the bolstering of your ego? "I'm not even going to listen to what you have to say" is pretty much the worst thing you can do in an argument without getting violent, and you know it. Also, "how do you live with yourselves, you should all die for stupidity" or whatever was unnecessary. "Why is the average FFR'er so dumb?" is also unhelpful and unwarranted, given than the average user realistically has an IQ above 95 and thus isn't that dumb.

[TF_cyanide]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

I would argue more in this thread, but my vocabulary is much smaller than everyone else's here, but that does effect the points I make unless you have nothing to say in return to them.

Racism is wrong, in a every way. Does it meant that people aren't racists? not at all. Racism is as much a statistic as murders. this year 150 people got murdered and 110 of those people were black, it was probably gang related, or they might have been living in a cheap run down neighborhood because that was all they could afford and were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
also there is basing first impressions off of first appearance and past experiences, but then there is saying that based off of those assumptions of the other person that you are better than them. I'm definitely not racist, but they jokes racists come up with are pretty good.

[Vendetta21]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

I would argue more in this thread, but my vocabulary is much smaller than everyone else's here, but that does effect the points I make unless you have nothing to say in return to them.

Don't let this stop you if you've got a point to make just think about the words you want to use to make it a bit, you shouldn't worry about whether or not your vocabulary is good enough as this is an open discussion board on a Fingerdancer forum.