Is it wrong to be racist?

[Reach]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

How were these gaps evaluated? I can see the explanation as being easy to see if, say, we are looking at children raised in certain families. If we gauge the IQ of a black kid raised in a black family (opportunities, resources, and parenting inclusive), on average we should expect a different result than if we gauged an Asian kid's IQ when that child was raised in an Asian family (opportunities, resources, and parenting inclusive). But I would expect certain results if we raised, say, a black kid in an Asian household and vice-versa (assuming comparable genetic health beforehand).

You would expect this, but whether or not you get that result depends on the study.

Anyway, there is so much information on this topic it's not even funny. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence if you are interested.

It just makes dealing with this issue even more complicated (if it wasn't already bad enough ^^ )

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

I don't think anyone is going to agree that hiring underqualified minorities is the answer.

Ultimately, we just want to put everyone on a track to actually *be* qualified. That's the hard part, and there's no easy solution.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

To some extent I don't find the results surprising, but I do find them depressing -- what a way to throw additional wrenches into an already-touchy subject. Like any other human attribute, natural selection and genetic variation keep the apples falling not-too-far from the tree. Brains that are well-equipped for intelligence are going to produce forth brains of similar mold -- but if anything, this does shed some light on how quickly evolution results in some pretty significant changes for mankind.

[dragon890x]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

Society treats racism as something anyone can define on their own terms. Being classified with such loose definitions everyone claims to be correct, and so easily redefined by the same individuals. Some claims may be similar to others, even pushing to the point where some individuals make an attempt to throw aside a few of their beliefs and try to create a solid foundation. Later, finding out other groups attempted to achieve the same goal, yet their answer is different in almost every way. They begin to clash, causing them question and fear the chance of losing the few beliefs they have left. On top of their struggle with others, individuals in their own group begin to question the conclusion they thought was perfect. Having missed the beliefs they tossed away without reason, then clashing events showing them even more possibilities, they crumble.

Thinking the majority will ensure accuracy. Building the masses and gaining what they thought to be power and authority. Now, little by little, they watch as their numbers slowly fade away. Never truly realizing the irony of what has become of them, they become the minority. Pointing the blame on another group who believes they hold the true power and authority. Yet, if they took the time to assess the situation, it was obvious that tossing away the things they believed in and forcing other beliefs on those who are indifferent caused them to become hollow. The only accomplishment was forgetting why they even started, but more importantly, forgetting what the problem really was.

Racism is man made. The only true definition is that of which we give it. Society changes over time, opinions follow in their path. Though, only looking at this through the perspective of a mass of individuals isn't enough find common ground. Every individual also has their own opinion, and just like society changes, they do too. You can find as many perspectives as you'd like, you will only find that there is too much to factor in if you'd ever want find what you are looking for.

The more you try to get the answer, the more you find places to look. As you get closer to the answer to your own belief, you'll find yourself defining and redefining it over and over again. A never ending struggle made by the same individuals who strive to break free from it.

(Feel free to add more than just these two if you care.)

A racist is a racist in one nation's eyes, a victim in another's.
A racist is a racist in one group's eyes, a victim in another's.
A racist is a racist in one person's eyes, a victim in another's.

Red is red in one nation's eyes, red in another's.
Red is red in one group's eyes, red in another's.
Red is red in one person's eyes, red in another's.

A racist is defined by the opinions others make, not excluding the one made by the accused, based off of the many factors in the current situation.
Attack him if you must, his blood will still be red.

You're fighting a losing battle and asking a question only you can answer.
Any other answers are just meaningless opinions we call our beliefs clawing at your one truth in attempt to bring it down.

[Cavernio]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

What results do you find depressing Rubix? The Wikipedia article? That thing is gianormous and has lots of back and forth...it doesn't leave with saying there's an unexplained IQ difference between blacks and whites. For what its worth, my first year psyc prof bashed Rushton and used many of his studies as examples of what to look out for when we do research. Basically he said Rushton used data which most of the psychological community has agreed is very skewed. (Like those IQ tests of WWII.) Of course, this being such a touchy subject area, people will jump all over it and look at it with a fine toothed comb to point out all the flaws...which is good! (I can only wish all research was poked through so much.)
An interesting tidbit: I found out in school that we measure heritability in human IQ different than we measure it in livestock. Both called heritability, but in measuring heritability for, say, milk production in cows, the measure is much more restrictive.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

I didn't just look at that article, Cav -- I did a bit of additional digging through Google.

[Mulie]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

The word "race" is itself a vague descriptor referring to divergent human populations marked by easily perceptible differences in outward appearance. At this point there's already a problem with guaranteeing the exclusivity of representative samples in any study. And any education you might acquire, on "intelligence", rather than its peripheral mechanics, let alone any statements as definitive as there being a biological basis for differences in performance in cognitive tasks between races, should really be taken with a grain of salt. Intelligence itself is very loosely defined at any meaningful level, and that is the only way it can be, because of how far we are from fully understanding its underlying principles. Wouldn't want to see where you found those results.

[devonin]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

It's a fun fact of the way Affirmative Action is set up, that there aren't actually any concrete definitions for what constitutes being a visible minority, or what constitutes belonging to a specific visible minority.

Pretty much, any time you're filling out one of those forms, you can claim to be any minority you want, and there's no legal way to tell you that you lied.

[SCWolf]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

A teacher came up with this question when a student in one of my classes said that the substitute was racist:

Is it truly wrong to be a racist person?

I argued it isn't wrong to be racist. It is perfect human for all of man's actions and decisions. If someone's different, it may be unsettling but it does not mean to give them a title and a bad reputation from stereotyping and recurring events. No matter what you do or say, there will always be racist people. There are those mindsets that people have.

What do you think?

Discuss.

Personal opinions can't be wrong, or right.

[devonin]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

My personal opinion is that the moon is made of cheese.

That is wrong. Personal opinions can absolutely be wrong or right.

[SCWolf]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

My personal opinion is that the moon is made of cheese.

That is wrong. Personal opinions can absolutely be wrong or right.

Religion is also based upon personal opinions and beliefs, but is any one religion right? There are certain things that can be argued either way, and the topic of this thread is one of those things. Why go through the trouble of proving whether it's right or wrong when clearly you could argue either way until the end of time itself.

[kommisar]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

I made a debate thread about opinions on keybeat



every single opinion is subjective and will be considered wrong by at least one person no matter what the subject.

[SCWolf]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

every single opinion is subjective and will be considered wrong by at least one person no matter what the subject.

Exactly. Which is why this thread is going nowhere fast.

[Mulie]

Re: Is it wrong to be racist?

This thread and CT in general, by that logic.