Time

[bluguerrilla]

Re: Time

Bluguerilla, time is definitely a vector quantity. It has the properties of acceleration as shown by Einstein's theory of relativity. Calculus shows that anything with an acceleration has an integral, which is a velocity (both vector quantities).

No, a vector has magnitude and direction.

Time does not have the property of acceleration or velocity as those are both derivatives with respect to time.

The space-time vector is r = (x,y,z,t), t being time, and that's as far as I'm going into this as this discussion isn't so much about physics and geometry as it is about philosophy (sic).

Edit: Izzy, could you elaborate on your viewpoint a little?

[Xx{Midday}xX]

Re: Time

Yes i know you can manipulate what we perceive as time by a difference in whats changing because of the speed. A clock isn't some godly object that is the definition of time. A clock works by things moving. Has nothing to do with time.

A variation of a supposedly constant motion is a percepted difference. What's wrong with using that as evidence?

No, a vector has magnitude and direction.

Time does not have the property of acceleration or velocity as those are both derivatives with respect to time.

The space-time vector is r = (x,y,z,t) and that's as far as I'm going into this as this discussion isn't so much about physics and geometry as it is about philosophy (sic).

See, this is the misconception I was stating earlier. Time can slow down and speed up. Which means it can change magnitude. In theory, time can also slow down to the point it's almost zero, by reaching the speed of light. However, it takes more energy (if it is energy that is required) to transcend the speed of light than to sustain the properties of spacetime fabric, which makes it impossible to go backwards in time. Another way to look at this would be to say, you have to make the value of the time vector equal to zero, which is the same as removing time. However, time is not a scalar quantity, because it possesses the properties of rate and acceleration. Time should truly be defined as seconds per meter. In reality, just like distance=meter, and velocity=meter per second, time=second and ?????=second per meter, but we don't have a term for that as of today. Therefore, we just use time. Time in the second form is a scalar, but is a vector in the form of second per meter.

To Izzy: Actually, the theory concerning seconds per meter is completely my original ideology.

[bluguerrilla]

Re: Time

So what direction is time pointed in?

Also, are you saying that t := f(n) where n = dt/dx?

[Xx{Midday}xX]

Re: Time

The direction we're headed in now. Like all torque and force vector problems, we arbitrarily assign it a charge. In this case, I would probably call it positive. Direction is an arbitrary term. Nothing truly is positive or negative. We just use those terms to differentiate between directions. An electron could be termed positive, as long as a proton is termed negative. Left could be termed right as long as right is termed left. Etc.

Time (seconds) is a scalar. Time (seconds per meter) is a vector. Time (seconds per meters squared) is a vector. Time (s/m) is f(x), time (s/m^2) would be the derivative of f(x).

I will leave this thread now. My mom wants to play SWR. =)

[Izzy]

Re: Time

http://www.robsworld.org/notime.html

It appears that I'm not the only one who has come to similar conclusions. Although i haven't read this entire page i think it is about what i am saying. It's not something that contradicts anything anyone has said in this thread. It's just another way of looking at it.

[darkness1477]

Re: Time

time is really nothing more than man's observations on things we have no reference for and will never comepletly understand. we can make up all sorts of theroies, but there are things we will never understand no matter how hard we try but instead of accepting that we make up a bunch of crap that makes sense at the time but in the ennd are just guesses and needed to be treated as such.

[Frozen Beat]

Re: Time

Time and motion work together. If there is no time, then there is no motion. Also, isn't time non-existent? Something that humans simply made up?

[devonin]

Re: Time

I mentioned pretty extensively before, my opinion that time exists objectively outside the bounds of humanity's invention. What humans made up is the particular scale and duration of the measurements we apply to time.

It would exist and function whether we had created the concept of seconds, minutes, hours, years etc. But the labels are of our own devising.

[Xx{Midday}xX]

Re: Time

Agreed with devonin. As I asked before, how come time is treated so differently from space? If time is such an "inexistent entity", how come space isn't treated likewise?

[darkness1477]

Re: Time

time and space may not be alike at all just because it looks tghat way from how we percieve it does that mean that maybe we can't be wrong?

[devonin]

Re: Time

how come space isn't treated likewise?

Because we percieve space well...spatially. It is much more intuitive to see how tall things are than to try and be aware of their movement forward and backwards through time. We get a reasonable idea of the passage of time because of how much emphasis we put on measuring it as it passes, but it seems a lot more abstract to a lot more people.

[Izzy]

Re: Time

I mentioned pretty extensively before, my opinion that time exists objectively outside the bounds of humanity's invention. What humans made up is the particular scale and duration of the measurements we apply to time.

It would exist and function whether we had created the concept of seconds, minutes, hours, years etc. But the labels are of our own devising.

I believe the exact opposite. Sorry

[Magewout]

Re: Time

I believe the exact opposite. Sorry

If you don't think time exists by itself but is merely made up by humans, what do you think about 2 things that happen 'after' each other? Surely they didn't take place at the same... um... time, because there would be no cause and effect possible in the universe.

EDIT: sorry if my English confuses you, third language :P

[super kid]

Re: Time

I was watching something on NOVA about dimensions and they believe that time is a dimension.

[Izzy]

Re: Time

If you don't think time exists by itself but is merely made up by humans, what do you think about 2 things that happen 'after' each other? Surely they didn't take place at the same... um... time, because there would be no cause and effect possible in the universe.

EDIT: sorry if my English confuses you, third language :P

Thats not true. Things naturally flow from high to low by itself. There doesn't have to be a universal time variable.
http://www.robsworld.org/notime.html
Did noone look at this?