Time

[Izzy]

time does not refer to any kind of "container" that events and objects "move through", nor to any entity that "flows", but that it is instead part of a fundamental intellectual structure (together with space and number) within which humans sequence and compare events. This second view, in the tradition of Gottfried Leibniz[6] and Immanuel Kant,[7][8] holds that time is neither an event nor a thing, and thus is not itself measurable.


From wikipedia. Is there any reasoning behind any other ideas of time? A person i know on aim is trying to argue that time is related to matter and some bull**** i don't even know whats hes trying to say anymore.

[Chaosvermin]

Re: Time

If time itself is not measurable then what is it that we use to order our events of whats happened and of what will hopefully(not) happen.

Time cannot be related to matter for the lack of it being a physical entity, time is just something we created in our minds, who knows maybe there are mentally handicapped people who do not know time for they cannot create it within there own minds.

By the way this is only what I've thought of know, i have no time nor real motivation to put proper thought/research into this

[Izzy]

Re: Time

I don't think it means time is unmeasurable in the way you are thinking. They are saying there is no definite measurement of time because its a measurement we put together.

[Chaosvermin]

Re: Time

Well thats true not all people would have the same measurement of time, it would be impossible for multiple people to have the same personal measurement of time.

[TheRapingDragon]

Re: Time

Time is simply something incomprehensible that man decided to give a name and dictate how it runs. Time is thusly man-made.

Man decided how long a second, minute, hour, day, week, month, year was. Man decided that time flowed in a certain way. Hell, how do we not know that "time" (as defined by man) is actually wrong and that we are just sitting at the same "time" as when all of the universe began.

All I can think is that man defined "time" as a way to understand biological deterioration.

And I understand I'm probably explaining all my views wrong but it's very hard to describe an indecipherable thing such as no concept of time ever existing but being man-made.

[Chaosvermin]

Re: Time

Yeah i was thinking about the biological decomposition definition, it is a good point.

we are just sitting at the same "time" as when all of the universe began.

Arg thinking about it like that screws my mind up lol.

[windsurfer-sp]

Re: Time

Also time is different in different frames of references.

The time between event A and B is different for two observers traveling at two different speeds. Neither observer is more right then the other.

[TheRapingDragon]

Re: Time

The time between event A and B is different for two observers traveling at two different speeds. Neither observer is more right then the other.

Though if you want to speak logically then you would just say that the time at event A and event B is the same no matter what.

Both men start at event A at 1pm, it is 1pm for both of them.

Man A gets to event B at 2pm, it is still 2pm at event B for both men even if Man B has not reached there yet.

Man B gets to event B at 2.30pm, it is still 2.30pm for both men at event B.

[Izzy]

Re: Time

I don't think you can explain it in another way by explaining theory of relativity because you still have to have an idea of what time is to do that.

[Reach]

Re: Time

Though if you want to speak logically then you would just say that the time at event A and event B is the same no matter what.

That's not the point though. The point is, the *perception* of time in between event A and event B were very different for those men, due to the effects of time dilation.

Time is a necessary constraint for anything to happen in the universe. In order to specify how and where a physical event happens in space, it requires time, and thus the word 'spacetime' is often used to combine the two, as they're quite similar in many respects. What is happening in space will determine how time is perceived for those in some frame of reference, which is determined by the amount of mass (or energy) an observer has, and this is probably what your friend was getting at Izzy. As this mass/energy changes, so does the perception of time. As such, modern physics sees the spacetime of an object as an intrinsic characteristic of it, much like length or mass.

Time itself isn't man made - it's just that it's measurement can be arbitrary. Just because someone decided an inch was of a certain length does not mean that length does not exist. I would argue this from the analogy here: Length does exist because all things in the universe have innate properties of length that can be measured (arbitrarily) and are intrinsic to them. Likewise, Time does exist because time is an intrinsic characteristic of the universe and all things in it, that like length can be measured (arbitrarily). If you were to remove time, we wouldn't exist, and the fundamental properties of the universe would be vastly different.

[Izzy]

Re: Time

But maybe its not really time that we are thinking of. Just that things change naturally and we label it as time. It's not being recorded anywhere so i don't think its really a thing.

And that's not how the guy was describing it reach. All he said was time exists so he exists.

[devonin]

Re: Time

It sounds mostly like he's just not explaining his position very well, rather than that he is holding some strange position.

I usually argue that time is a spatial dimension no different from length, width and depth, and measures the size of an object's duration. The measures of time we use (second, minute hour et al) are as Reach said completely arbitrary just as foot, inch, cubit and parsec are arbitrary measures of physical dimensions, but those dimensions do exist.

There is a philsophical basis to support arguing that time doesn't actually exist, and that reality is in fact a series of unconnected still-frames, and that time is a construction wholly of the human mind to enable it to basically -pretend- that there's a logical flow there and thus be able to actually process incoming sensory inputs in a useful way.

These are often also the people who will claim things like "There's no such thing as objects either" on the grounds that the mind, once again, clumps certain things together as discrete objects in order to be able to function, but that what is actually being processed by the mind is a large mess of unconnected stuff.

[Izzy]

Re: Time

So time becomes a dimension just because we declare it is?

[bluguerrilla]

Re: Time

Err... I'm not sure what you're trying to say? Usually theories are declared and tested.

I don't see how time existing proves the existence of himself.

I wouldn't say time is related to matter in any way, matter exists in time much like it exists in space.

[Izzy]

Re: Time

I don't think there is anyway to test time. Only the effects of time. Everything can still happen its just how things work. Time doesn't need to be some dimension because things just change or can be manipulated in the first three dimensions.