GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

[Kilroy_x]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

There was actually this one thing I looked up, though I don't remember what it was called. This one guy decided that standard IQ tests don't fully measure intelligence, and divided intelligence into several--I think nine--categories.

That would probably be Howard Gardner. There seem to be two main objections to his work, the first being that he doesn't seem to offer any evidence that his different forms of intelligence are tied to actual different mental faculties. This is especially important in light of all the work on intelligence done by structuralists, those who support mathematical reductions of intelligence such as Spearman's G (this is probably the bulk of professionals in the field, although even just outside the field you probably find a majority of people who have some other conception of intelligence). The second is, many of the things he lists as forms of intelligence could more accurately be called skills.

[N.T.M.]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

Hahaha, I got a good laugh out of that.

But in all seriousness, do you not give a damn, or are you just lazy?

I just completely stopped caring. I developed a hatred for the highschool system and it quickly started to significantly compromise my GPA. Eventually I stopped caring entirely.

[Relambrien]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

Thanks Kilroy; that is indeed who I'm talking about.

Here's an overview of the types of intelligences he talks about. You can find a more in-depth explanation at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_intelligences

Bodily-Kinesthetic - The ability to control one's body and use "muscle memory"
Interpersonal - The ability to interact with and understand others
Verbal-Linguistic - The ability to work with words and languages
Logical-Mathematical - The ability to analyze, use logic, and reason
Naturalistic - (note: not originally part of Gardner's work) Sensitivity to nature and one's surroundings
Intrapersonal - The ability to understand oneself and be self-aware
Spatial - The ability to visualize and mentally manipulate things
Musical - Sensitivity to tone and sound

Now, as for the objections to his work, I can't say anything about whether these are all tied to different mental faculties. The good thing about that is the layman's definition of "intelligence" doesn't bother itself with that, so it doesn't matter to most people.

I can talk about "intelligence vs skills" though.

A "skill" generally refers to a person's proficiency in a certain action, comparable to knowledge, whereas "intelligence" can refer to an affinity for something, or ease of learning. Basically, how well someone has the ability to understand, learn, and apply. For instance, someone may be fluent in Spanish but found it very hard to learn. Then you may have a high school student who's having a very easy time learning the language. The former demonstrates knowledge, the latter demonstrates intelligence. Ease of learning isn't something that can be developed like a skill can, so the best way to refer to it to most people is "intelligence."

[Reach]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

GPA is correlated at best mildly with IQ (r=0.5 on a good day, essentially meaning 75% of the factors contributing to GPA are not intelligence related). That aside, I think it's fairly clear even in spite of this correlation, GPA has next to nothing to do with intelligence. A high GPA is not achieved through the use of higher mental capabilities...producing novelty, having a high degrees of creativity and thought, solving problems that cannot be be solved by the average person (e.g. Einstein, who by all accounts was a lazy dog in university) etc. You achieve a high GPA by doing exactly what you've been told to do and, generally, dedicating a lot of your time to memorizing and practicing materials you've been given. Most people with the highest GPAs are type A personality workaholics. I think Med schools etc in the past and are still learning lessons through their selection of only the ultra high GPA individuals and realizing their workforce is far from balanced and less than efficient.

So yes, a high GPA can be achieved with relatively little intelligence. You need enough to be able to grasp the material you're learning at best, and from there the people with the highest GPAs are those that work the hardest for them. High school graduates average ~100-104 IQ. University students ~105-110. Professors have been found all over the place, ranging from 85-130+.

Also, I tend to think of IQ as your capacity to learn, not what you already know. Because someone has a high IQ, a high potential to learn, does not mean they know how to use those faculties for their own benefit. Therefore, I feel that it isn't a concrete representation.

Well actually, IQ tests generally measure crystallized and fluid intelligence. Crystallized intelligence is essentially the application of knowledge to solve a problem and fluid is solving the problem without prior knowledge to work with. So, they measure how you can apply your knowledge, which is infinitely more important than actually knowing things. I wouldn't consider Ken Jennings to intelligent just because he can regurgitate facts. Kim peek can do that as well, and his IQ is 70.

[Rubin0]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

Personally, my "intelligence" has never been accurately represented through my grades. Compared to IQ tests that I have been forced to take and the grades I bring home....it is almost ridiculous. I bring home C's to B+'s because I know it is just high enough that my parent's won't kill me, and low enough that I won't really have to work that hard. I lose most of my credit through assignments that I just fail to turn in and not showing up for class. I know plenty of people that bring home A's, but yet have an average IQ. They go to class, do all their assignments, do the extra credit, etc. I believe it has a lot to do with determination. I really think people can achieve almost anything if they try their darnest. I never really cared about school and my grades reflect that. I'm almost ashamed.

Intelligence is a person's potential...not their actual achievement.

[Dark Ronin]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

I never thought there was a correlation between GPA and intelligence. It might not be this way elsewhere, but at my high school and at the colleges I applied to they all said that the ACT or SAT reflects your overall knowledge and GPA is your willingness to work hard. Intelligence isn’t even a factor. I guess they just assume that people who work hard in school and do well on the ACT are intelligent.

[N.T.M.]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

A "skill" generally refers to a person's proficiency in a certain action, comparable to knowledge, whereas "intelligence" can refer to an affinity for something, or ease of learning. Basically, how well someone has the ability to understand, learn, and apply. For instance, someone may be fluent in Spanish but found it very hard to learn. Then you may have a high school student who's having a very easy time learning the language. The former demonstrates knowledge, the latter demonstrates intelligence. Ease of learning isn't something that can be developed like a skill can, so the best way to refer to it to most people is "intelligence."

I know this comment doesn't really contribute anything to the thread, but I just wanted to comment on how well worded that was. Just explained perfectly.

[[TeRa]]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

my gpa is below 1.00, and that does not refeclt my intelligence at all.

colleges I applied to they all said that the ACT or SAT reflects your overall knowledge and GPA is your willingness to work hard.

Pretty much you nailed it, but, GPA does require a little knowledge for the higher numbers, not everyone can get straight 95+'s in high school, it requires a little knowledge. Although I guess you could also say because you don't have enough willingness to learn, you didnt learn all the things the others did learn, making you not possible of getting those straight A's, were if you were willing, you would have learned it.

[masamursha]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

my GPA
freshman year: 4.1
sophomore year: 3.9
junior year: 2.6

I'm going places

[TD_m0nster]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

judging by the results, people obviously didnt take this poll seriously

[Dark Ronin]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

judging by the results, people obviously didnt take this poll seriously

Actually those look like fairly typical results to me. Most people on the critical thinking forum should either be intelligent people who are interested in higher-level thinking or random people who would post on anything. So you end up with a lot of good GPA's and a few just thrown about. Oh and you can’t forget about the people who lie to make themselves look better.

Wow I just completely contradicted myself there, didn't I. What I said does make sense, but before that I said GPA has nothing to do with intelligence. I guess it does make sense that most intelligent people would have higher GPA's, not all but most. Because if you are intelligent you should realize that the best way to have a good life is go to college so that you’re ensured a decent job, and so you would do the work to get the grade. Then you have people who just aren’t very smart, those people may not be able to get a high GPA regardless of how hard they work.

So there is a correlation between the two. GPA isn’t intelligence, but they are at least loosely related. For example if there were two people, one with a 4.0 GPA and another with a 0 GPA and you had to choose the more intelligent student; almost anyone would pick the 4.0 and I'm pretty sure anyone would agree that that’s pretty sound thinking.

[All_That_Chaz]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

Having a high GPA means you're good at getting good grades, which takes a modicum of intelligence anyway. I just don't like how some schools change the scales to reflect weighting. Like some school's honors classes were out of 5.0 instead of 4.0. Back when I was in high school we used a 100 point scale and they just added 8 points for honors classes and 10 for AP. Then they translated your 100 point score into a 4 point score, capped at 4 (which sucked for everyone who got higher than a 100, which I think was 24 people out of my class of 717).

I finished high school with exactly a 100.0 and got a 3.157 at Northwestern.

[Squeek]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

Your GPA is a correlation between how much time/effort you put into your education and how well you can remember facts.

AKA, knowledge.

Your IQ is a correlation between how fast you can think and how well you can analyze various situations.

AKA, intelligence.

MENSA is not loaded with people who have a 4.0 or higher. No, those are valedictorians. MENSA is loaded with people who know how to think. I was annoyed that this game show kept pointing out that this member of MENSA was having a hard time with easy questions. It's obvious! He can think analytically, not harvest every grain of information!

Now, that's not to say you can't be both. All I'm saying is that there's very little correlation between intelligence and GPA. To put it in modern terms, take the good ol' MMORPG. Your level in an MMO is 95% the time you've played and 5% knowing how to play. You could even take me. Many people think I'm pretty smart. My GPA disagrees with you. I'm struggling to get myself up to a 3.0 GPA. At one point, I had a 2.2. Then again, maybe it's just that I'm an idiot after all and just lie to myself every day. I'll stick with the former, though.

[devonin]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

judging by the results, people obviously didnt take this poll seriously

Or CT has a reasonably large number of users who get good grades in school.

Your IQ is a correlation between how fast you can think and how well you can analyze various situations.

AKA, intelligence.

I'm not necessarily convinced that IQ correlates to intelligence either. The first creator of an IQ test, when asked what it measured, answered "It measures those things at which I am most proficient" and having taken a number of them in my life, I'm generally tempted to agree that the majority of them test for specific kinds of intelligence, specific kinds of analytical thought, and/or specific kinds of knowledge, and you can really only take a number of different ones and average the result before you get something approaching accuracy.

[Squeek]

Re: GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

Which is what you should do anyway.

What I'm saying is you can't go boasting that you have a 4.0 GPA and some nice SAT score (I don't even know what they're out of anymore... shows how stupid I am) and say "I am intelligent!" People confuse "knowledge" and "intellect" all the time. As someone who argues semantics down to a 't', it bugs me.

With regards to that, I had an 1110 out of the old 1600 SATs. Teeheehee. I even mucked the English portion of it. 550/560.