Aesthetics

[evilbutterfly]

i fine sleeping people to be beautiful. especially girls, especially when they are having happy dreams. it doesnt matter what kind of dream, tho, because they can be making any kind of weird face, but just them laying there peacefully is really cool to me. there's something about people worrying that i hate, but when they are asleep they are so peaceful and calm, with no worries. i dont care if they're drooling or in weird positions or with some fucked up look on their face that would look ugly if they were awake, people (mostly girls) sleeping is just awesome.

one of the few things more beautiful than somebody sleeping is 2 people sleeping together. all cuddled up and just looking like 2 halves of a beautiful whole. not only does it look good, but it reminds me of laying beside and snuggling with my (ex) girlfriend. *sigh* i really miss that...

also, in response to some of the above statements: water in all it's forms is cool looking to me. whether it's the carpet of white snow in the winter, the rolling waves along the beach, or the fluffy clouds floating above your head, Dihydrogen monoxide is one of the greatest looking natural substances.

oh, and explosions are beautiful. something about nuclear explosions just makes me stare in awe.

[alvask8er]

Fire is incredible to stare at...most everyone does it when fire is present. It just is beautiful the way is changes and is smooth, also the different colors that can be in it.

[Xaimus]

so, then if tracker patterns are beautifull to you. what makes them beautifull for you?

Dunno. The knowledge that with enough work, and with nothing but freely available tools, I could create music that rivals the quality of music made by those who decided to spend hundreds of dollars on professional audio software that seems to do nothing but provide a nice cushy interface for manipulating sound sources.

I just need to practice more.

I also find most music to be beautiful. I'm not quite sure why, though I would like to consider myself to be an audiophile.

[IronMonk]

talisman, obviously you are just running your mouth trying to sound smart.

firstly you really should read through a thread before you post about stuff or you might just say somehting stupid. you cannot take 2 objects, put 2 more objects beside it and expect to have anything other then 4 objects. as for God, he/she/it is very easy not to believe in. considder the odds. more people dont believe in any given god then believe in it. (ie. there are more non christians then christians.)

people who are asleep do have an amazing beauty about them. i have never really understood the beauty in them. perhaps it has something to do with the peacefull expression they have.

[talisman]

no dude, I'm right. If you were to take two objects put them next to two other objects and ask a person who doesn't believe that 2+2=4 how many objects there were, he or she could just as easily say three or five or whatever, and mean it.

My point, which you seemed to have missed, is that truth is defined individually for every person. If a person refuses to believe in simple addition, no matter how wrong they appear to be to others, they will still be right to them. So while for you an I 2+2 will always equal 4, to a hypothetical person who doesn't believe this, it never will.

You seem to claim that there is absolute truth in that simple equation. I say that there isn't, because nothing can truly be absolutely true unless every single observer in the universe thinks about it in exactly the same way. For something like 2+2=4, it is 99.9% absolutely true because so many people agree with it. But one can never discount the possibility that there is someone out there who doesn't.

Your point about God supports my arguement entirely by showing that what may be true to some is not true to others. And if something is true to everyone, how can it be considered absolutely true? And therefore how can one assert that it is true?

[NeoDarkHeart]

because for him not to assert that it's true would be for him to not be part of that 99.9%, and he, deserting his own beliefs.

just like you can't argue with someone that something is completely true if they dont believe it, you can't argue that you can't argue with someone that something is completely true if they dont believe it if he doesnt believe it. lol. i know it got confusing, just bear with me.

you and I understand this theory that truth is in the individual, therefore we can't be part of the 99.9% or the .1%, because we're outside the two. to be part of either one is to deny the theory, and not be able to argue for it anymore.

so basically, i completely agree with you, talisman, but as for those who dont, it's impossible to argue towards if they deny the theory alltogether. denial takes them and puts them into one of the two percentages, beyond the reach of the theory and what we consider for it to be true.

the theory locks itself out of certain people's minds by existing as it does, as a statement that truth is in the individual, and there are those individuals who refuse to accept certain things, therefore they refuse to accept the theory, and the theory locks itself out of their mind, with nothing it can do about it. no amount of logic can counteract itself, so in essence, it is its own worst enemy.

in short: let it go. if they dont understand, they wont understand.


EDIT: eh, we have to give this theory a name... the Ouroboros Theorem. an ouroboros is a creature that eats its own tail, and consumes itself. i think it fits. what about you?

[talisman]

I think it probably already has a name somewhere... probably something Greek.

And I think it's possible for anyone to at least acknowledge the prescence of alternative viewpoints in the same way that I acknowledged that someone could disbelieve in addition while I myself do believe in it.

Well.

To get this thread back on topic as I sort of sidetracked it,

I tend to define beauty as a characteristic belonging to something that makes me happy, and not necessarily something you see. For example, there are many kinds of music that I could consider "beautiful", ranging from classical because, well, it's classical, to electronic music because of the order and precision of the sounds.

[TheTypist]

Sight

I think we have lost sight of what this thread is all about. We all go around the forums spilling out our most ridiculous opinions without shame. Many of those "facts" are simply opinions cleverly disguised.

Then, when certain people are afraid to say what they THINK is beautiful in their OPINION, (or have never paused to think of it,) they go and pretend to be above it all. It makes me kind of sick.

I love birds of prey (except for vultures.) They have a rather focused, intense glare that I find beautiful, and a sleek, majestic gracefulness in the sky that I can't resist.

[IronMonk]

sorry talismen, but you are still nopt seeing what i am talking about. true they candissagree with the number 4. but for them to actually believe that it was anything other then the concept of 4 items is impossible. naturally excluding a non-ordinary reality (drugs/insanity, due to a change in perception) talimen unless you can come up with anything other then "no your wrong" please dont post, only post if you are actually putting proof behind what you say


music is a very beautifull thing to me as well, the harmonies and notes that are woven together is amazing.

@TheTypist, i have never really given much thought to birds of prey. but i agree their stare is very stoic and beautifull

[talisman]

It's certainly not likely, but is possible that a person's brain could be so fucked up that whenever they saw four items the concept of five or two or something would register instead of the concept of four. The probability of finding such a person is rather low, but it is still there. My point is that there is nothing that is absolutely true. If you disagree with that then we are left with a philosopshical difference that is irresolvable.

On another note, let's say one was counting in base 3. Then 2+2=11.

[DracIV]

Talisman, stop being stupid. 2 + 2 = 4 is an absolute fact. If someone thought it was 5, they are WRONG. Something is an absolute fact if all differing answers are wrong. And if you are using base 3, which we are not, it would have to be 2 with a subscript 3 + 2 with a subscript 3 = 11 with a subscript 3. However, the forum doesn't display subscript so that doesn't work well here.

[evilbutterfly]

well the concept of the number would still be the same. even if they say 3 to mean 4, they mean 4. if they are saying things in a different number system, the concept is still the same. also, just because 1 person thinks something isnt true doesnt mean it isnt true. i could say and think that China is not a country, or that there arent millions of people in the world, but that wouldnt mean that China is really a territory of Italy or that there are only 30 people in the world. it means i'm an idiot who doesnt know very much about the world. within their mind it may be that such things are untrue, but to say that because it's untrue in their mind it stops being true in reality is just dumb. kinda of like if u're in a car going 100 MPH and u see another car going 110 MPH. to you, it looks like the car is going a slow 10 MPH. u may even believe they are going that slow, but does that mean the car isnt going 110 MPH? u're trying to argue that how somebody perceives something affects how that something really is, when really it is just the opposite. the relative truth of something may vary in the minds of each individual person, but the actualy truth is a definite thing. things that we have no definite knowledge of, such as God, may or may not be true, but their existence is not for us to decide, but rather something for us to discover after we die. everything u're trying to say is really stupid. not to say that u are dumb, u're just not thinking this all the way through.

what it comes down to is this: believing in something can make it true, but disbelieving something cannot make it false.
also, if u're gonna continue to post here, at least relate your post to the original topic by commenting on beauty at the end as the rest of us are doing.

one weird note about beauty for me: one time i sat and took a good look a model in a magazine, and after a while i started to notice odd little features. after a while of staring, all i could see anymore were the little oddities about her, and she started to look kinda ugly, despite being a supermodel. it's weird. if i look at somebody or something too long, i start to see all their worst parts and they look bad to me. the only person that this hasnt happened with was my ex. i did, and still can, stare at her picture for a loooooong time and every lil feature on her face just makes her seem more beautiful to me. of course, being in love with her does make me a lil biased :P

[Jam930]

Ugh. How retarded is this thread?

2 + 2 = 4

I don't care if you know that or not. Don't try to sound all super-psyche.

Fact is that two units combined with two other units will make four units total. Who cares what language you speak or what you think.

[talisman]

There is no absolute fact, truth, or concept of beauty. This just happens to be my philosophy. Sorry for bringing it up. I suppose I'll have to take all this to the new absolute truth thread, won't I?

(On an interesting sidenote, you all should read 1984, by George Orwell, which actually has the main character, Winston Smith (I think that's his name) held prisoner in a Ministry where he actually is forced into believing that 2+2=5, instead of 4. Of course, it's fictional, but all fiction has a certain amount of truth in it).

And subscripts? wtf? Who uses subscripts? There aren't any subscripts in binary, or hex. Why would there be subscripts in base 3?

To acquiesce to evilbutterfly's request, since I must do his bidding, because he said so, and stuff, and comma splices.... I tend to find beauty in order, but not man-made order. Natural order, like how stalactites and stalagmites form, and stuff like that. In fact, caves in general can be pretty beautiful, I suppose.

Sorry if I sounded "super-psyche"....

(super-psyche?)

[Jam930]

Definition of absolute implies that no matter what you think or do, that's how it is.

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Fractals. Learned about them in geometry class, pretty =D.