Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

[tsugomaru]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Yes. It's relatively successful. Any PS3 or 360 game that get 200,000 sales break even with the development costs so a game that sells a million is a success. However, it's not success on the scale of the other big games in the genre such as Halo 3 at 9 million or Gears at 6 million. I can't confirm whether or not "new" games always sell more than "older" games, but it's not like it's a guarantee that new games will always be a success. I read somewhere that very few games actually break even and even fewer become big hits on the level of a million sales.

~Tsugomaru

[Squeek]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

katamari damacy was relatively successful..
didn't the psp game sell a million? I thought each new title grew in sales numbers...
it was by far the best game on the gamecube, and the psp game was even better imo.


but yeah, im guilty of only buying / playing games because of multiplayer (with a few exclusions).
i.e - we bought halo2 like two and a half years ago. i played it all summer of 2006 basically, like and hour or two a day. i had all my levels over 40 by the time i quit the game, and i had never gotten past the second stage of the campaign.

Katamari wasn't on the Gamecube. And it wasn't even remotely the best game on the PS2.

And no, even fewer of the PSP game have sold.

[somethingillremember]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Look, of course I know that the industry doesn't care about plots. But I really don't think it would be that hard to come up with a plot better than what games usually have.
Think about it:

GoW: Aliens attack. Kill them.
Halo 3 and Halo 2: Aliens attack. Kill them. (actually, these two had an OK plot, but Halo had a better one)
Any war game: Nazi's/Russians/Middle Easterners attack/have a nuclear weapon. Kill them/Disarm the weapon.
Manhunt: Kill them.

Okay, so there are some with plots, like Prince of Persia's plot is okay. But the industry could do much better, without even trying that hard.

But does everyone agree with me that videogames would be more fun if they did have better plots?

(Actaully, I think people's accusations against Halo are partially wrong. The whole series together has a good plot, but it's spaced out over three (soon to be four) games. So it would have a good plot if you crunched Halo 2 and 3 into one game. Hopefully, Halo:ODST will be good.)

[Squeek]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

I see nothing wrong with that.

Plot doesn't drive a game. Gameplay drives a game. If the game is 100% plot and 0% gameplay, then it's going to be a terrible game. I think video game designers do better without worrying about an engrossing plot.

I disagree with you that plot would make FPSes better. I think gameplay is the most important thing. Far Cry, Crysis, etc. They're touted for amazing graphics. Too bad they're terrible games. The gameplay is disgustingly bad.

You've broken down the overarching plot to "kill aliens", but that's not the entire plot. I started playing Gears 2 last night, and even as someone who has never played Gears before, I found the story good enough to want to keep playing. In fact, we didn't finish and I went home and was about to go online to look up how it ends because I might not have another opportunity to play again.

PS - way to generalize everything, thus proving that you haven't played anything.

PPS - Halo isn't bad for its terrible story. It's bad for its generic and unimaginative gameplay.

[thechild]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Kingdom Hearts is a horrible, cliched, unimaginative game that has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

And the sequel is even worse.

I have no idea why so many fanboys love it (oh wait, cloud is in it, right), but damn, people are really blinded with rose-colored glasses on this one. The plot is ridiculously bad and the best feature of the sequel is the ability to skip all of it.

The only original thing it did was blend Disney (which sucks) with Square-Enix (which sucks more). That's not original, though, since collaborations between non-video game characters and video game characters have been going on for years. It's just the first one to use Disney.

Well I'm just going to do what you did to the OP.

That is what YOU think, but others might like it

or whatever you said. I never finish reading the thread and posted this after reading up to this post.

[somethingillremember]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

I see nothing wrong with that.

Plot doesn't drive a game. Gameplay drives a game. If the game is 100% plot and 0% gameplay, then it's going to be a terrible game. I think video game designers do better without worrying about an engrossing plot.

I disagree with you that plot would make FPSes better. I think gameplay is the most important thing. Far Cry, Crysis, etc. They're touted for amazing graphics. Too bad they're terrible games. The gameplay is disgustingly bad.

You've broken down the overarching plot to "kill aliens", but that's not the entire plot. I started playing Gears 2 last night, and even as someone who has never played Gears before, I found the story good enough to want to keep playing. In fact, we didn't finish and I went home and was about to go online to look up how it ends because I might not have another opportunity to play again.

PS - way to generalize everything, thus proving that you haven't played anything.

PPS - Halo isn't bad for its terrible story. It's bad for its generic and unimaginative gameplay.

I wasn't generalizing. I was exaggerating to prove a point

Notice also that I did not say GoW2, which actually looks pretty good.

Also, can people please stop saying things like "way to do this" or other things that, at least to me, seem like forum allowed ways of insulting someone. I don't know if you intended it to be an insult, but to me, it felt like one. For the record, I'm sorry I generalized things, I'm sure all the games I mentioned have better plots than I said they do, and the Manhunt thing was really just a joke.

As for gameplay driving a game, yes, I think that's true, If a game is all plot and no game, it wouldn't be much of a game. But I think that it's also really hard to make single player gameplay that doesn't get repetitive after awhile, especially when players get stuck. If there isn't much plot, and a player gets bored with the game, then they have no reason to continue playing. If there is a good plot to go with the game, then a player who is stuck at a really hard bit will have reason to keep playing. When I got stuck at a boring part in eternal, the plot was what kept me playing the game, instead of switching to another one of the many free Marathon games.

Also, I think that there could be one game that sells well where it focuses on plot. It couldn't happen multiple times, but for one game people would like it. In other words, because so many games these days are focused mainly on online multiplayer, one game with a really good plot and not-so-great multiplayer might sell just because it was different. That's why I liked Eternal - it was a bit of a break. If I were to play another game like it, then I probably wouldn't care so much, but for one game it was pretty fun to have a bit of change from the norm.


On a slightly different topic, how was GoW2? I might want to get it if I get my Xbox fixed.

[ShAiOnEi]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Fallout 3 has the best plot ever for next gen fps. Also MGS4 although it's not an fps it has a decent plot.

[Squeek]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Well I'm just going to do what you did to the OP.

That is what YOU think, but others might like it

or whatever you said. I never finish reading the thread and posted this after reading up to this post.

There's a big difference between my opinion and his opinion.

A lot of other people agree with me. Nobody agrees with him.

Now, the funny thing is, I enjoyed it my first time around. But after looking back on it and after playing the sequel, I realized that the franchise is just another example of Square Enix playing to the fanboys, like they do with every franchise they run.

Also, can people please stop saying things like "way to do this" or other things that, at least to me, seem like forum allowed ways of insulting someone. I don't know if you intended it to be an insult, but to me, it felt like one. For the record, I'm sorry I generalized things, I'm sure all the games I mentioned have better plots than I said they do, and the Manhunt thing was really just a joke.

It's not meant as an insult. Rather, it's meant to point out something in a forceful manner.

As for gameplay driving a game, yes, I think that's true, If a game is all plot and no game, it wouldn't be much of a game. But I think that it's also really hard to make single player gameplay that doesn't get repetitive after awhile, especially when players get stuck. If there isn't much plot, and a player gets bored with the game, then they have no reason to continue playing. If there is a good plot to go with the game, then a player who is stuck at a really hard bit will have reason to keep playing. When I got stuck at a boring part in eternal, the plot was what kept me playing the game, instead of switching to another one of the many free Marathon games.

I can't think of many games you think lack a plot that follow this ideology. Every review for FPSes that you think lack a plot basically says "the plot's nothing to write home about, but it's enough to keep you playing."

In the end, the point of the plot is to keep you playing. I can't think of many games that fail to do this. In fact, from my perspective, sometimes a deep plot makes me not want to play a game. That's only if it's not in an RPG though.

On a slightly different topic, how was GoW2? I might want to get it if I get my Xbox fixed.

I never played the original so I can't compare, but it was a good shooter. I'm not a fan of third-person shooters and cover systems and all that, though. I definitely wouldn't pay $60 for it. I only buy games if I can get a dollar an hour or better. Since I don't play multiplayer, I highly doubt I would get 60 hours of gameplay out of Gears. I certainly didn't get it from CoD:WaW, but I wouldn't say that's a bad thing. I loved CoD4 and that was short too. It was a great game despite its length.

[Ground_Breaker]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

I just got finished with Grand Theft Auto IV, and I loved every minute of it because of the plot. I haven't really gotten too sandbox-happy with it yet, but most of the time the mission objectives are:

a) Drive to a location
b) Kill a bunch of guys
c) Chase someone out of the location and kill them too
d) Profit

I still enjoyed it because there were other things going on. I mean, GTA4 certainly isn't an FPS so it may or may not go hand-in-hand with either side of this discussion, but I just felt like mentioning it because I loved the game. Since the debate seems to mostly surround FPSs, I think it's pretty safe to say that what makes most people play them is either the multiplayer or the gameplay, or a combination of both.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

I liked KH2 for the story... It was pretty good. There was a pretty good plot with Rainbow6 Vegas 1 and 2, Gears of war 1 and 2. There are a few good games with plots.

[somethingillremember]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Okay, so I guess there are quite a few games with plots (I really doubt many of them have the complexity of the one I'm playing now, but that's because plot is all Eternal has). So maybe we could, like, make a list?

Fallout 3
Gears of War 2
Grand Theft Auto IV
Bioshock (actually, thinking back to this game, if you paid attention to the tapes lying around everywhere, it had a really good and complex plot as well)
Lots of the old Marathon games (I recommend these, they're really fun for being free)

Any others you guys can think of?

[-Barista-]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

To me, I just have this 'smothered' feeling of regurgitated video games all around me. It's frustrating how I don't see a ton of unique games out there, but, it's like what Squeek says. It's mostly about what other people want. They focus mainly on gameplay to satisfy what the majority wants. Sure they'll do something to make it a little different from the one the other company makes, but, I wish they'd take that a step further. To me it just feels like there's no real art to it.

And I won't lie, there are some games out there that have really good plots. Some that have the good plots and gameplay to boot too. And guy with the incredibly large SN that started this thread, you're probably like me and just wish that you could see more.

[Superfreak04]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Go Counter-Strike 1.6!

[Squeek]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Okay, so I guess there are quite a few games with plots (I really doubt many of them have the complexity of the one I'm playing now, but that's because plot is all Eternal has). So maybe we could, like, make a list?

Fallout 3
Gears of War 2
Grand Theft Auto IV
Bioshock (actually, thinking back to this game, if you paid attention to the tapes lying around everywhere, it had a really good and complex plot as well)
Lots of the old Marathon games (I recommend these, they're really fun for being free)

Any others you guys can think of?

I can name a few.

I really don't understand your problem here. As long as the game doesn't begin with you shooting polygons for no reason, I have no idea how you can make the claim that every other FPS lacks a plot. The original DOS shooters basically had you shooting Nazis. There's still a plot. Whether it's good or bad is up to the player, now isn't it?

What I don't understand is how someone who needs to have a deep, engrossing plot in their games has chosen the FPS genre as the place to look for it, when the RPG genre has had a deep, engrossing plot in every entry into the genre since its inception decades ago.

And your post is sounding more and more like an advertisement for Marathon. Funny thing is, I'll still never play it because I've yet to like a game Bungie has made whether it's free or not.

[tsugomaru]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

You also seem to be generalizing into all games. I thought the discussion was only about FPSs having "amazing" plots to them and yet you're mentioning several sand box and action games. There are plenty of games out there with amazing plots, but you aren't likely to find them in the FPS genre.

If you generalize everything, of course you will see repeats in the story. A lot of shooters have a "kill aliens" setting, but when you look at the finer details and execution of the plot, of course it's going to be very different. It's like saying that Game A has a "save the world" plot and Game B has a "save the world" plot so all games have boring similar plots.

~Tsugomaru