Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

[somethingillremember]

Very recently, I've been playing a fairly new game made on the 94-96 Marathon engine called Marathon:Eternal. The graphics are a little bit better than the original, but really that's only because they are higher resolution (you can only do so much, as the engine is limiting). Also, the challenges are kind of monotonous, and mostly involve kill these guys, flip this switch to open this door, and then kill more guys.

But there is something else about this game, something that makes this game on my top 10. You see, because this game cannot do much toward gameplay or graphics, it has to make up for it with something else. A plot. A really GOOD plot.

In fact, even the best of game plots, like Bioshock, don't come close to what this game achieves. So why can't games these days come up with some good plots? Are there games that I have not played that have good plots? Or is it just Marathon with a good plot?

[NFD]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Because the majority of plots have been used. They've been thought up and put to use already.

[somethingillremember]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Still, reusing a good plot is better than having a crappy one and saying "well, every other plot is taken". Besides, wouldn't crappy plots be even more of copy cats?

[Squeek]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Shooters don't need plots. They compete for graphics, nothing more. A few stand out as actually having plots, but the industry has noticed that most people don't care for that and just make something up to keep you playing.

Other than BioShock and Half-Life, I haven't seen any shooters centered around plots in years. Even then, these games have ulterior motives to drive sales. BioShock had plasmids, Half-Life has the Gravity Gun and physics. And sorry, your example doesn't count considering it's so unknown that it doesn't even have its own Wikipedia page. To me, you're just using the indie vs. mainstream argument. Well, obviously. Indie games don't aim for the mainstream. The mainstream [i]doesn't[i] care about plot, so what do you think indie games are going to do?

So, until you tell me that all video game genres lack plot, this is the end of my point of view. But if you're not limiting yourself to FPSes, then prepare yourself for 1000+ word reply explaining how many ways you're wrong.

[somethingillremember]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Okay, okay, I know many RPG's and other games have plots. But yeah, I was mainly speaking of FPS's. I'm of the opinion that if an FPS came out with a good plot, then it might actually sell pretty well.

Also, Eternal is more cult than indie. Marathon was one of Bungie's first games, and is a HUGE inspiration to Halo. In fact, there are references to Marathon all over Halo, and although Bungie staff have claimed that Halo and Bungie aren't part of the same game, some people believe that the ending cutscene of Halo 3 ties the two together. Eternal is a fan-made game based on the original series, and it started development back in 96, got forgotten, and then started up again in 2004.

[tsugomaru]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Okay, okay, I know many RPG's and other games have plots. But yeah, I was mainly speaking of FPS's. I'm of the opinion that if an FPS came out with a good plot, then it might actually sell pretty well.

The world has proven otherwise. It's a nice idea on paper, but it doesn't work in reality. Although some people would disagree with me otherwise, I believe Halo has a decent plot. However, it's not why it's selling 8 million or so copies. Especially the newer Halo games. I haven't played those, but from what I've heard, the story is complete crap, yet it still sells close to 10 million copies. It's not unheard of to mix genres like an FPS and an RPG, but it's typically not a good idea unless it delivers well on both fronts.

~Tsugomaru

[Squeek]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Okay, okay, I know many RPG's and other games have plots. But yeah, I was mainly speaking of FPS's. I'm of the opinion that if an FPS came out with a good plot, then it might actually sell pretty well.

...BioShock sold well. Just because you didn't like the plot doesn't mean it was a game sold on plot. And just because you don't think the plot was original doesn't mean the plot wasn't. Sure, it was basically System Shock 2 with updated graphics and a new setting, but how many people played System Shock 2? I'm betting not even a tenth of the people who played BioShock played SS2.

Also, Eternal is more cult than indie. Marathon was one of Bungie's first games, and is a HUGE inspiration to Halo. In fact, there are references to Marathon all over Halo, and although Bungie staff have claimed that Halo and Bungie aren't part of the same game, some people believe that the ending cutscene of Halo 3 ties the two together. Eternal is a fan-made game based on the original series, and it started development back in 96, got forgotten, and then started up again in 2004.

And you're one of maybe a few thousand people who knows anything at all about it. That makes it non-mainstream. What are you getting at?

Let's look at the mainstream FPSes of this generation and why they sold well.

Call of Duty 4: Modern setting and intense multiplayer.
Call of Duty 5: Updated multiplayer from CoD4.
Resistance 1, 2: Multiplayer and interesting guns.
Unreal Tournament 3: Multiplayer.
BioShock: Story and Plasmids.
Half-Life Orange Box: Cheap, Portal, Multiplayer.
Left 4 Dead: Multiplayer.
Halo 1, 2, 3: "Story" and Multiplayer.
Crysis: Graphics.

Huh. I wonder what developers are focusing on?

[NFD]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

I like to think that Kingdom Hearts was pretty original. I mean, I never saw a Square Enix/Soft and Disney combination of a game, and when I did, it looked really stupid. When I actually got the game, I was amazed. Not only was there a completely original plot, but it was done so well.

[Squeek]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Kingdom Hearts is a horrible, cliched, unimaginative game that has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

And the sequel is even worse.

I have no idea why so many fanboys love it (oh wait, cloud is in it, right), but damn, people are really blinded with rose-colored glasses on this one. The plot is ridiculously bad and the best feature of the sequel is the ability to skip all of it.

The only original thing it did was blend Disney (which sucks) with Square-Enix (which sucks more). That's not original, though, since collaborations between non-video game characters and video game characters have been going on for years. It's just the first one to use Disney.

[tsugomaru]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Probably the thing that pisses me off the most is when I see You-tube comments of people saying that Tales ripped on Kingdom Hearts.

There's only one reason why I think people like Kingdom Hearts. They've played Square Enix's Final Fantasy series where the battle system was ATB. When they played Kingdom Hearts, which was also another game by Square Enix, the change in the battle system was new and refreshing to them, so they enjoyed it. Also, I've noticed a lot of my friends only like playing mainstream and popular games. As long as it has a big name, it must be good, right?

~Tsugomaru

[somethingillremember]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

...BioShock sold well. Just because you didn't like the plot doesn't mean it was a game sold on plot. And just because you don't think the plot was original doesn't mean the plot wasn't. Sure, it was basically System Shock 2 with updated graphics and a new setting, but how many people played System Shock 2? I'm betting not even a tenth of the people who played BioShock played SS2.

For one thing, I never said I didn't like Bioshock's plot. In fact, I own Bioshock, and I really like the game because at least it had some good plot. In fact, it had alot of good plot, compared to the rest of the games coming out.

My point was that Eternal has a really good plot, and it made me realize what games could be doing with their plots.

The world has proven otherwise. It's a nice idea on paper, but it doesn't work in reality. Although some people would disagree with me otherwise, I believe Halo has a decent plot. However, it's not why it's selling 8 million or so copies. Especially the newer Halo games. I haven't played those, but from what I've heard, the story is complete crap, yet it still sells close to 10 million copies. It's not unheard of to mix genres like an FPS and an RPG, but it's typically not a good idea unless it delivers well on both fronts.

Bioshock had a good plot. It sold well.

[tsugomaru]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

So? I'm not against a good FPS with a good plot. I'm all for it. However, that's just my opinion on it and my opinion belongs to a minority group. Big game companies who strive for success don't care about my opinion too much, they cater to a larger group of people. This larger group of people are those who care about multiplayer FPS gameplay. In my group of friends, only two of us enjoys playing RPGs while the other 10-15 of us enjoys playing Halo 3 online or whatever.

~Tsugomaru

[Squeek]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

For one thing, I never said I didn't like Bioshock's plot. In fact, I own Bioshock, and I really like the game because at least it had some good plot. In fact, it had alot of good plot, compared to the rest of the games coming out.

My point was that Eternal has a really good plot, and it made me realize what games could be doing with their plots.

Bioshock had a good plot. It sold well.

Again, BioShock's main selling point was its setting. #2 was the plasmids. #3 was the plot.

And for all of that, it barely managed 2.5 million. Compare that with 9 million from Halo 3, 7 million from CoD4, and 6 million from Gears. What do you think people are looking for in an FPS? Hell, BioShock barely manages to be in the top ten for shooters on the 360 in terms of sales.

Look at it from the developer's viewpoint. There are all these amazing games with great multiplayer aspects selling 5m+. There's one standout game that took the time to write a deep, engrossing plot that hasn't even sold half that. Hmmm.

And again, I'm not making any argument as to whether BioShock was good or not (for the record, it was good). You're saying "games should have good plots". The vast majority of gamers are saying "games should have good multiplayer". In the gaming world, majority rules. Always has, always will. Breakout games are high-risk, low-reward. Most breakout games get huge review scores, but low sales figures. For example: Katamari Damacy. Most gamers would agree that it's a great game. It hasn't even broken one million units in sales.

[SethSquall]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

I thought the story to Half Life life was good. I thought the story to Bioshock was good although I hated the actual game. I thought the story to The Darkness was superb although the gameplay got annoying. Condemned is kinda like an FPS and I liked the story.

Although the good to bad story ratio isn't very complimentary to the FPS genre there are a few diamonds in the rough.

[infinity.]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Again, BioShock's main selling point was its setting. #2 was the plasmids. #3 was the plot.

And for all of that, it barely managed 2.5 million. Compare that with 9 million from Halo 3, 7 million from CoD4, and 6 million from Gears. What do you think people are looking for in an FPS? Hell, BioShock barely manages to be in the top ten for shooters on the 360 in terms of sales.

Look at it from the developer's viewpoint. There are all these amazing games with great multiplayer aspects selling 5m+. There's one standout game that took the time to write a deep, engrossing plot that hasn't even sold half that. Hmmm.

And again, I'm not making any argument as to whether BioShock was good or not (for the record, it was good). You're saying "games should have good plots". The vast majority of gamers are saying "games should have good multiplayer". In the gaming world, majority rules. Always has, always will. Breakout games are high-risk, low-reward. Most breakout games get huge review scores, but low sales figures. For example: Katamari Damacy. Most gamers would agree that it's a great game. It hasn't even broken one million units in sales.

katamari damacy was relatively successful..
didn't the psp game sell a million? I thought each new title grew in sales numbers...
it was by far the best game on the gamecube, and the psp game was even better imo.


but yeah, im guilty of only buying / playing games because of multiplayer (with a few exclusions).
i.e - we bought halo2 like two and a half years ago. i played it all summer of 2006 basically, like and hour or two a day. i had all my levels over 40 by the time i quit the game, and i had never gotten past the second stage of the campaign.