Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

[Infernova]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

He didn't say he didn't like BioShock's plot. He even mentioned in the thread opener:

"In fact, even the best of game plots, like Bioshock..." -somethingillremember

"...BioShock sold well. Just because you didn't like the plot..." -Squeek

Posting a massive list of FPS when you know the OP was asking about decent plots, not just any poorly conceived trash for the sake of meeting standards, just seems like intentional misinterpretation to me. If it isn't, though, fair enough. =P

However, I can see exactly what you're saying, Squeek. On that list I saw Battlefield 1942, easily one of my favourite FPS, and it's plot was so minimal it basically only consisted of mission briefings as the maps loaded in Campaign mode. The briefings were pretty much always the same. In fact, the game didn't even have a proper beginning or ending. You started Campaign having had no tutorial. You just killed enemies and took bases until you won. Still an amazing game, in my opinion, due to it's online multiplayer and customisation through expansions/mods. Online multiplayer, as mentioned earlier in the thread, being a massive factor in the success of new FPS.

What I think somethingillremember meant was that he'd like to see more games in the genre with a story which stands out. It's true, developers often slack off in their attempts at really grasping the player's attention with a groundbreaking story or unexpected twists, but games like Half Life and BioShock do stand out in this genre and are great games, well, at least in my opinion.

Also, BioShock being in the Top 10 FPS on 360 is a testament to the idea that FPS with a plot can in fact sell. Now apply such a great plot to an FPS with fantastic multiplayer, and I'm sure the sales won't exactly deteriorate. I honestly don't see where the problem lies with someone suggesting such a thing. You can say "Yeah, but the mainstream only wants solid gameplay!", but if that's the case, why shouldn't they be getting both? I can't think of someone who would whine about that sort of thing unless they were immature, and/or too young to be playing FPS. But maybe it's just me that sees it like that?

[SethSquall]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Go Counter-Strike 1.6!

I like killing people at CT spawn from T spawn. Seriously 1.6 is ****ing bad.

[somethingillremember]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

You also seem to be generalizing into all games. I thought the discussion was only about FPSs having "amazing" plots to them and yet you're mentioning several sand box and action games. There are plenty of games out there with amazing plots, but you aren't likely to find them in the FPS genre.

If you generalize everything, of course you will see repeats in the story. A lot of shooters have a "kill aliens" setting, but when you look at the finer details and execution of the plot, of course it's going to be very different. It's like saying that Game A has a "save the world" plot and Game B has a "save the world" plot so all games have boring similar plots.

~Tsugomaru

I already said I was wrong for generalizing things, okay? I'm wrong, everyone else is right, are you happy now? I know I'm being a jerk at the moment, but can everyone stop telling me I'm wrong? I know I'm wrong. Im ****ing admitting it! I still like plot in a game, but I can see that most people don't so I guess it doesn't matter.

And by the way, yes, I'm obviously promoting Marathon, because I like it. I want other people to have fun playing it, too. Is that okay? Besides, Bungie didn't even make Eternal.

Really, sorry if I sound like a dick right now (like, seriously, not sarcastically).

Oh, and thanks Infernova and Barista for supporting!

[Infernova]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

I just don't see the point in turning something someone said into an argument against them, that's all. It's the sort of thing that I'd imagine could turn people away from posting in forums at all. ;O;'

I'm not usually fussed for incredibly complex stories in most games, to be honest. But it's pretty much essential, as Squeek says, for genres like RPGs to have at least a half-decent plot. Unless it's an MMORPG, like PSO, in which case I just want to grind until I get better equips and farm bosses all day. xD

Oh, and by the way. I played the Marathon Trilogy when I was little. Too young to understand it much, but it was good fun. =P

[somethingillremember]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Yeah, RPG's have to have at least descent plots. Some are fun without one, but not many.

I finally beat Eternal, but unfortunately got lost in the plot in the last two or three levels (I managed to keep up with it for the first 50 though...). So I'll have to ask in the pforums (the Marathon forum) what happened, exactly.

[tsugomaru]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

but if that's the case, why shouldn't they be getting both?

Because then they would have two things to focus on. The developers and designers likely don't have the time to work on an enticing story and design an excellent FPS at the same time. Just because Bioshock and Half Life 2 was able to do it doesn't mean that everyone else can. It's not like it's a requirement for an FPS either considering so many have succeeded without a good story as a driving force to the game.

This has been mentioned before, but I believe that the OP would just like to see more FPS games with a good story. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just that it's not likely to happen with all the big mainstream games whose developers probably spent months designing something as simple as a reloading system. Also mentioned before, indie games are more likely to focus on a good plot rather than good graphics so until then, just snoop around for good indie FPSs.

I just don't see the point in turning something someone said into an argument against them

If we all just made our arguments without considering what the other person has said, we'd just be talking to ourselves.

~Tsugomaru

[Infernova]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

That's not really why they shouldn't be getting both, but more why they aren't, and I can understand what you mean. The developers will only go with what suits them based on the criteria which fits mainstream FPS gamers best, most of the time. Look at the amount of FPS on the 360 alone though, and you can probably see why I think it appears reasonable to claim it should remain a possibility for an FPS to contain a decent story, whilst retaining a multiplayer aspect. For every shooter that gets around average sales because it's just regurgitating an already worn formula, had the developers spent more time defining the game's plot as something quite different, the success of the game may also, in turn, be different.

By that I don't mean that any old half-assed FPS with a literary epic could out-sell Halo or whatever, because it's far from what I'm saying.

Even me typing this isn't at all relevant to the OP, because I'm pretty sure he was just looking for a discussion about how people feel the genre's quality of storytelling has diminished from back when it played a large part of the game, having had not so great graphics and since they needed something to be able to distinguish one FPS from another.

But yeah, tsugomaru, fair enough, I realise that you should take into consideration what you post about in an argument, although this thread wasn't even meant to be a debate, at least from what I can imagine. xD

[Relambrien]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

All threads are debates unless everyone agrees on something. And this is the Internet. That doesn't happen.

[Infernova]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Even though I know you're not entirely serious. What about score threads, introductory threads, threads for C&C on art/music, and so on?

Just because it's the internet doesn't mean people can't have a decent conversation with one another. Especially on these forums, since there are many respectable and mature posters. =P

[Squeek]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

What's not decent about this?

Nobody here has broken any forum rules at all. There's no flaming, no offtopic posts, etc.

Although I am tired of arguing at this point. I've posted the same thing several times now and it's pretty much gone ignored, so there's just no point in continuing.

[Infernova]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

To be perfectly honest there really wasn't all that much needed to be said to begin with. Even if we sat for hours questioning the reasons why developers these days aren't going to great lengths to make a decent plot for their FPS, it won't affect the fact that that sort of thing will still be churned out on a regular basis anyway. Unless any of us are directly involved with the industry, or wish to contact dev teams directly to tell them how shoddy their latest game was due to lack of a fresh story. Even then I doubt anything good will come from it. xD

A lot of it is down to opinion though, I guess, about what's good and what isn't. If you liked Marathon, play System Shock, since you're okay with dated graphics. Or you could try Call of Cthulhu, although it's not an FPS, but an interesting first person horror styled role playing game. Maybe Condemned if you like horror FPS. ;O;'

[Squeek]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

That's the thing. There is no question. There's only the answer that nobody has decided to read.

Developers only make enough of a plot to make the drive the single player campaign from start to finish. Anything more is excessive and meaningless.

The rest of your development time can be spent making a kickass multiplayer, because that's what matters nowadays.

And once again, BioShock sold well for more than just its story. It sold for atmosphere and intuitive gameplay.

[Infernova]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Yeah, don't worry, I read all your posts and I know what you're saying. =P

To be honest what the OP appears to be searching for are games that are already out. Just needs to look in the right places to find them.

I still feel sad that mainstream fanbasing is what has killed a lot of series I once enjoyed, but it's how the industry works, and I guess there's nothing to stop it progressing in this fashion, unfortunately.

Whining like I am now won't exactly solve anything. xD

[tsugomaru]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

I don't think anyone's ignoring what you have to say. They either don't reply because they agree with you or when they reply, talk about something besides what they agree with because there is really nothing else to say about it. I've felt like I've repeated myself several times in this thread, we all do.

~Tsugomaru

[somethingillremember]

Re: Whatever happened to videogames with a PLOT?

Yeah, don't worry, I read all your posts and I know what you're saying. =P

To be honest what the OP appears to be searching for are games that are already out. Just needs to look in the right places to find them.

I still feel sad that mainstream fanbasing is what has killed a lot of series I once enjoyed, but it's how the industry works, and I guess there's nothing to stop it progressing in this fashion, unfortunately.

Whining like I am now won't exactly solve anything. xD

Yeah, I did want to know some places to get cool games with plots and start a discussion about why plot in games is absent much of the time (I would say nowadays, but you guys all know about Doom).

I won't lie though, I did really want to advertise marathon