MapleStory

[ToshX]

Re: MapleStory

I mean, I'm not particularly fond of Tosh. I don't think he's too fond of me (I don't think he's too fond of ANYBODY here, really). However, for the most part, I treat him much like I'd treat anybody else. I respond to his posts and don't just try to trample on his feelings. He generally doesn't do that to me either. And even if one of us were to start being an ass, the other of us would generally just ignore it. Tosh isn't the most mature person, sure, but he's mature enough to not be petty and fight a lot. Well, usually.

Oh, that'll never stop simply because it's part of my personality. Nothing relieves stress like yelling at people.

PPS: There IS skill in this game. Just look at the early 4th job videos, where people who had hardly played at all got to screw around with characters near level 200. They sucked at the game and were horribly innefficient at killing things. Just look out how people who have played the first 30 levels of the game before can fly through them a second time whereas first-time players will have a bit of trouble getting to 2nd job. There is definitely skill in playing this game to its fullest, and if you can't see that yet then I don't know what's wrong with you. If you just think about it, it's pretty obvious.

That's not skill at all. That's knowing where to train. Information is not skill. Skill would be like double jumping to a fire arrow to a lucky 7(because I can't even think of an example in MS which requires skill). The only "skill" I've gained from playing my fire mage is reverse jumpcasting, and it's pretty useless anyway with skills like teleport.

[evilbutterfly]

Re: MapleStory

Teledodging, hitting things while jumping over them as a melee character, jumping on and off of ladders to go up a map faster, flashjumping to an exact point despite the skill going ridiculously fast, boomerang stepping just in time to avoid an attack (lol we don't have this yet), jumpshooting (as a mage or bowman), training underwater (there is a lot of timing involved in casting slow ass explosion while swimming upwards so that I hit sharks with it but don't ram them with my head), etc etc.

And if nothing else, you could say there is mental skill in the strategy of MS. Just because winning in chess basically means knowing the moves to do doesn't mean that there isn't skill involved in winning chess. There is strategy involved in where to train, who to train with, how to split up maps, what equipment to get, what skills to get and in which order, what pots to buy, etc etc etc. There is most definitely skill involved in this game, but a lot of people don't see it for whatever reason because they think that just because a game is an RPG means your actions don't affect anything.

[Afrobean]

Re: MapleStory

Tosh: skill comes in timing and being able to work the controls like you want to. Imagine trying to play MS on a totally different keysetting. The timing of things like heal, SR, heal, heal, SR, heal etc. or even a simply jump cast of L7 at the right time is skill. Jump casting as an archer or a mage is skill as well. Warriors need to develop skill in timing their hits so that they can hit the monster without being so close up that they get whomped. Let's see... what else is there... Mages need to know how to effectively use teleport, bandits need to learn when/where to meso explode/SB/band of thieves. Bowman need to learn how to not get damaged like ever because they'll die so easily. Hermits need to learn this as well, but their increased mobility causes them to do it in a different fashion (hermit = retreat to avoid damage, bowman = hold off enemy so that they can't come in on you). Hmm... I'm sure there's more... but even if there isn't all of those things I mentioned is skill.

Oh yeah. Jump quest. You tell me that **** doesn't take skill. Walking around and jumping isn't much skill, but learning how to take damage and use it to your advantage or how best to time and avoid things that might knock you down.

ps hey jason, you know that jump that makes getting to zMM easier? The one that gives hermits an advantage in the form of flash jump. Guess what? I made the jump the other day, but I forgot to mention it until just now. Usually, I'll just walk to the wall and wait for a monster to hit me and I'll jump and it'll launch me, but that time there were no monsters so I just jumped and I made it. I was like "WOAH". Anyway, yeah, I just wanted to say that because before you made it sound like FJ was necessary to make that jump. Heck I bet I could make it every time if I had actual haste.

[irteee]

Re: MapleStory

WHAT THE **** YOU GUYS I LEFT FOR A DAY BECAUSE OF WORK AND THERE'S TWO PAGES OF BULL****!? JEEEEEEEEEZ

Concerning said drama bull****: I'm pretty sure I've made it clear all along who I like or don't like. If I haven't come right out and said it, then I'm pretty sure I've at least made it obvious. You all know where you stand, and I like to keep it that way. Regardless, whether I like you or not doesn't mean I'm gonna be an ass. You have to REALLY piss me off for me to be a total asshat to you all the time. I mean, I'm not particularly fond of Tosh. I don't think he's too fond of me (I don't think he's too fond of ANYBODY here, really). However, for the most part, I treat him much like I'd treat anybody else. I respond to his posts and don't just try to trample on his feelings. He generally doesn't do that to me either. And even if one of us were to start being an ass, the other of us would generally just ignore it. Tosh isn't the most mature person, sure, but he's mature enough to not be petty and fight a lot. Well, usually.

My point is this: Tee, you keep saying stuff about how you don't start stuff. That doesn't matter. If you're really going to be mature about this, don't keep stuff going either. Starting drama isn't very mature. Continuing it is just as bad. Be the bigger person and don't even talk about it anymore. All of you, really (I just picked Tee out because she keeps saying she didn't start it), it doesn't matter who starts it or whatever. Just stop this bull****, it's retarded. Play the damn game and quit worrying about other people. Do whatever you want and yeah, whatever. Drama is dumb. Seeing page after page of it pisses me offfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff.

Well hey, I knew you'd pick me of all people.
Anywho, I've never had anything against you personally, but you like to say alot of things. You are quite hypocritical, aren't you. I can just stop all of it, and say nothing, but I find it amusing. IF you hadn't notice, there is a reason to why I pointed out what I did. I don't say things, I usually never do, but when I feel like it, I do it. I don't necessarily talk **** about people based on how they look. You're right about one thing, drama is dumb, but the rest, you should keep quiet about it. I don't really care about your opinion, or others based on the situation, I like to piss idiots off. Also, quit worrying about other people and consider your own advice. Lol, well that's about it.

[MagicCarpetRide]

Re: MapleStory

Teledodging, .

HA FUN

[ProtoMDS]

Re: MapleStory

I hate people who say "JUST DO WHAT YOU WANT, DON'T LISTEN TO BUILDS, OMFG YOU GUYS WHO GIVE ADVICE ARE SO DUMB LET PEOPLE DO WHAT THEY WANT". They're ****ing ignorant morons that don't understand that it's ADVICE. They're trying to HELP. Listen to it or calmly ignore it.

*Whistles innocently on pure PA build*

Anyway, I appear to have walked into a snowstorm blizzard powered by rabbits on viagra. Again, as Vash said, it's best to keep this kind of bull out of the FFR forums, and onto AIM/MSN/whoosiewatsisoojah.

DYNAMIC ENTRY STYLE: ULTIMATE MOOD DERAILING EDIT NO JUTSU!
On another note, Lifestream is kind of dead, so I've temporarily joined Victorious to gPQ. My god, it's fun I also survived the longest too

Teh edit of ultimate destiny!: I'll pick up jMS maybe, depends on how bored I get of my DK. Sakura as the server, right?

[vashthestampede0987]

Re: MapleStory

DYNAMIC ENTRY STYLE: ULTIMATE MOOD DERAILING EDIT NO JUTSU!

Any respect I once had for you was lost after you said this.

In other news, canceling my WoW account so I'm going to start playing MS again.

[IAAW]

Re: MapleStory

I've actually been trying a different skill build... that I thought up.

Lvl 30: 1 Heal (1)
Lvl 31: 1 MPE, 2 Heal (1, 3)
Lvl 32: 3 Heal (6)
Lvl 33: 3 Heal (9)
Lvl 34: 3 Heal (12)
Lvl 35: 3 Heal (15)
Lvl 36: 3 Heal (18)
Lvl 37: 3 Heal (21)
Lvl 38: 3 Heal (24)
Lvl 39: 3 Heal (27)
Lvl 40: 3 Heal (30, maxed)
Lvl 41: 3 MPE (4)
Lvl 42: 3 MPE (7)
Lvl 43: 3 MPE (10)
Lvl 44: 3 MPE (13)
Lvl 45: 3 MPE (16)
Lvl 46: 2 MPE, 1 Teleport (18, 1)
Lvl 47: 2 MPE, 1 Teleport (20 maxed, 2)
Lvl 48: 2 Teleport, 1 Invincible (4, 1)
Lvl 49: 2 Teleport, 1 Invincible (6, 2)
Lvl 50: 2 Teleport, 1 Invincible (8, 3)
Lvl 51: 2 Teleport, 1 Invincible (10, 4)
Lvl 52: 1 Invincible, 2 Bless (5, 2)
Lvl 53: 3 Bless (5)
Lvl 54: 3 Bless (8)
Lvl 55: 3 Bless (11)
Lvl 56: 3 Bless (14)
Lvl 57: 3 Bless (17)
Lvl 58: 3 Bless (20 maxed)
Lvl 59: 3 Invincible (8)
Lvl 60: 3 Invincible (11)
Lvl 61: 3 Invincible (14)
Lvl 62: 3 Invincible (17)
Lvl 63: 3 Invincible (20 maxed)
Lvl 64: 3 Teleport (13)
Lvl 65: 3 Teleport (16)
Lvl 66: 3 Teleport (19)
Lvl 67: 1 Teleport (20, maxed), [2 Points Left Over]
Lvl 68: [5 Points Left Over]
Lvl 69: [8 Points Left Over]
Lvl 70: [11 Points Left Over]

Assuming that I'm already lvl 48 by now, I will STILL have all the things I need for a HA'less build maxed.

Heal: Maxed
MPE: Maxed
Teleport: Maxed
Bless: Maxed
Invincible: Maxed
HA: 11 (HELL NO, I'll plop it all in EB from 1st Job.)

Meh, that's the build I'm trying out. And yes I do retarded things. It's how I learn. It's how I risk doing stuff. But yeah, that's a build I thought up, and I'm trying it out, since I end up with what I need maxed.

[jamuko]

Re: MapleStory

I kind of want to get back in jMS with you guys again too, 'cause I miss this game. Unfortunately I've been away from my computer so much of my time lately, and on top of that jMS in my dorm is laggy as armageddon... :/ but we shall seeee.

[ToshX]

Re: MapleStory

Teledodging, hitting things while jumping over them as a melee character, jumping on and off of ladders to go up a map faster, flashjumping to an exact point despite the skill going ridiculously fast, boomerang stepping just in time to avoid an attack (lol we don't have this yet), jumpshooting (as a mage or bowman), training underwater (there is a lot of timing involved in casting slow ass explosion while swimming upwards so that I hit sharks with it but don't ram them with my head), etc etc.

And if nothing else, you could say there is mental skill in the strategy of MS. Just because winning in chess basically means knowing the moves to do doesn't mean that there isn't skill involved in winning chess. There is strategy involved in where to train, who to train with, how to split up maps, what equipment to get, what skills to get and in which order, what pots to buy, etc etc etc. There is most definitely skill involved in this game, but a lot of people don't see it for whatever reason because they think that just because a game is an RPG means your actions don't affect anything.

This is hardly skill, but rather, common sense.

It doesn't take a genius to know to teleport into an empty space and set up monsters.

It doesn't take a genius to realize how far his Flash Jump goes after doing it all day.

I certainly am not any more "skilled" at anyone at this game, and I learned things such as the above nearly instantly. Maybe it's because there is no skill to it. You talk about Chess as if it can be related, but it cannot. In this game, someone could just print out one page of summarized paper telling him or her exactly what to do with his character and where to train through level 120, and maybe when to teleport, all in a single page, and he would be finished. You cannot put instructions of how to play Chess on one page, hand it to someone new, and expect them to do well at all. It is simply such a hard game in comparison that it has trouble being fit into an entire book.

[evilbutterfly]

Re: MapleStory

It's okay Jammy Jam, JMS is laggy for me. Cam is the only one who doesn't lag like a bitch. ****ing west coaster. >=(

Tee, I'm not talking about on the forums. I'm talking about all in all. I hear stuff from you about Elly saying stuff and from Elly about you saying stuff. I don't know or care who started it, I'm just saying that continuing is stupid. You should both stop. And I care about it because I hate seeing all this fighting over basically nothing. If you don't like her, just ignore her.

And honestly, I'm not sure why I don't like you, I just don't. And it's not so much dislike as it is just not...liking. *shrug* Maybe it's because of you being with Jason. Had I met you outside of that, maybe I'd think differently. But it's not that I mean to pick you out, it's that you're in the middle of all this and you keep it going. I do say mean things about you (did, moreso) when you weren't around, but it's not like I sweettalked you to your face. Sometimes I wanted to be an ass, but I just save it until you're not around so as not to cause a bunch of conflict. Same way I don't fuss about people here on the forums where they'll see it and get mad. I don't like fighting with people. =\

stuff about jumping to zMM

Where exactly are you jumping? I usually jump through the wall that the portal is on top of rather than climb down (jumping through the walls in the dungeon is sooo easy. btw Tosh this is more skill stuff), but are you saying you can jump from the left side of that wall to the right and quickly climb the rest of the way to zMM? Or are you can saying you can jump up to the portal from the left side? Gimme a SS or something and show me wtf you're talking about. o_O

IAAW: You really don't need Invincible until later. Maybe getting 5 points in it to unlock Bless is okay (and this is only if you plan on partying with warriors. Other people don't care much, and if you plan on being solo (I dunno what your style is) then you REALLY don't need bless until later), but maxing it before Teleport is kinda silly. Given that you'll be fighting undeads and healing yourself to full HP constantly, taking 30% less damage won't even matter, cuz you'd heal that extra 30% dmg away instantly anyway. Teleport is a lot more useful at these levels because you'll save money and your training will speed up (it doesn't seem like much, but the extra distance of maxed teleport does speed you up, and the cost is so low you won't feel limited to how much you do it).

Really, if you get MPE and teleport early, you will use hardly any pots (or none at all) for the rest of your MS career. Bonk did Heal -> MPE -> Teleport I'm pretty sure, and he hit 3rd job in no time whatsoever. It was ridiculous, but with a cleric it's easy.

EDIT for Tosh: It doesn't take a genius to hit arrows as they reach the top of a screen. It doesn't take a genius to know how to move their mouse and point at someone's head and click to shoot. It doesn't take a genius to play hardly any game. Would you say a good Stepmania/CounterStrike/any game player isn't skilled? Of course not, because there is skill in doing these things. Jumpshooting with a crossbow is not easy, but some people can do it constantly and it speeds up their training and saves them lots of damage. Again, this is something that pisses people off, because your highest characters haven't experienced the most skillful areas of the game. The skill involved in using explosion and mist is way beyond the skill in using fire arrow. It's a completely different game, and a lot more precision is needed. And the FJ thing is not as easy as you may think. Jason could tell you, it's not easy to FJ exactly where you need to go. And for teledodging, it's easy to teleport away from enemies, yeah, but when you're fighting DTs or other higher level Ludi monsters and are gathering the bottom, it's hard as **** to teledodge around them and all their shots and take no damage, but I managed to do it quite a bit. Those things are huge, it's not like teleporting around a Jeti.

Also, the party element adds even more skill into it. Think about Zakum. You'd think it's just an easy thing, sit there and shoot him to death. It took Bera a long time to kill him despite having plenty of people high enough level to kill him. I'm pretty sure people kill him nowadays that are lower level than the original crew of Zakum-killers, because now they know what they're doing. There is strategy and planning involved in taking down a big thing like that. But even general partying, knowing how to handle your character to help yourself and others is great. I've been with plenty of people that were terrible at partying, who pulled in enemies that hurt friendlies or just generally didn't help. And if you think about 4th job, there's tons of skill there. Even with all the ridiculous power of 4th job, if you don't know how to utilize this power you'll still get destroyed by the Riprey monsters. I've seen videos of some terrible 4th job testers (they got instant level 195, and lots of them had the skill of a 1st-2nd jobber but were playing 4th job characters), and in contrast to the newer 4th job videos (of people in the actual servers, who have played their way through 120+ levels and picked up skills along the way) they were terrible. The new videos show the true power of skills, because the old ones were all of no-skill morons.

[ToshX]

Re: MapleStory

EDIT for Tosh: It doesn't take a genius to hit arrows as they reach the top of a screen. It doesn't take a genius to know how to move their mouse and point at someone's head and click to shoot. It doesn't take a genius to play hardly any game.

I stopped reading right around here. It certainly does take intelligence to play many games, just not the ones you're used to hearing about, the common mainstream ones. But anyway, back to the old example.

If I made a new account on FFR and played Molto Vivace, I would be able to pass it because it doesn't matter how many credits I have or the MP level of the account. If I made a level 1 and tried to solo Zakum, well, I'd die pretty quickly. This is why you can get by in FFR by being skilled, but you can't do anything about it in MS.

EDIT: Okay, people obviously aren't getting it. Let's compare this to GunZ. On GunZ, a level 1 can beat another level 50, even though the level 1 is significantly less strong, assuming the level 1 is good and the level 50 is only normal or above average, simply because of the skill in the game. Many people, when playing GunZ, will practice Kstyle every single day for many months before they learn how to do it, and then they haven't even begun to do it well. Just like in Stepmania, someone may play for two years before being able to compete with the others in the Brag Board. It does not take even a month to learn EVERYTHING combined in which you have mentioned thus far.

[evilbutterfly]

Re: MapleStory

This is why I keep bringing up the Korean test server. If you look at how a level 150 person plays that has played those 150 levels slowly but surely over the course of over a year and compare that to somebody who has hardly played the game but gets a level 150 guy on the test server, you'll see there is a big difference in skills. Even with equal equipment, the test server person will take a lot more damage, give a lot less damage, and generally not do as well. Just because level and stats have a huge effect doesn't mean it's the only factor.

I stopped reading right around here.

**** like this is a huge reason why tons of people hate you. Nobody likes argumentative people who refuse to even listen to opposing viewpoints. What's the point of arguing if you're not even going to do one of the most important parts of arguing? You really can't make valid counterpoints if you don't even read your opponents' points. Come on, now, be sensible.

[ToshX]

Re: MapleStory

This is why I keep bringing up the Korean test server. If you look at how a level 150

I can't even read any further.

Well listen, if you get some totally inexperienced noob, of course they will not be good. If you let them play for a day, or a week for the slower ones, they'll be able to do everything assuming they practice on one map. That's not skill, that's just not being a total noob.

**** like this is a huge reason why tons of people hate you. Nobody likes argumentative people who refuse to even listen to opposing viewpoints. What's the point of arguing if you're not even going to do one of the most important parts of arguing? You really can't make valid counterpoints if you don't even read your opponents' points. Come on, now, be sensible.

Because I don't believe you can bring up any valid point after reading the three sentences. I don't try to make people like me, it isn't my problem. I have little business with half of the people here.

[MagicCarpetRide]

Re: MapleStory

Yay level 51!