ATTN: Scoring System Needed

[stargroup]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

combo multiplier is a bad idea

progressive score increase is also stupid. thought that was obvious

[PsYcHoZeRoSk8eR]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

Just do the guitar hero/rock band thing:

hit or miss

[who_cares973]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

mungyodance lol

[Silvuh]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

Here's something of an idea...

If accuracy doesn't matter, then you only need a judge window for "hit".
To penalize mashing, what FFR calls a boo should be included. If you don't want to use the same names, you could call that a miss or a slip, and not hitting a note would be a pass.
Instead of a life bar, there could be a penalty bar. The bar would increase any time you let a note pass, press a key outside of the hit window, release a freeze, or hit a mine. The bar would decrease over time and with each note hit. Each point you have in the bar when you make a mistake would be added to your penalty score. If the bar fills, you would fail a song.
The point of this system would be to score you on how often you make mistakes.
I'm not sure if that's close to what you're looking for, but it's not based on accuracy or combo... so, yeah. It's an idea.

[Phynx]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

Here's something of an idea...

If accuracy doesn't matter, then you only need a judge window for "hit".
To penalize mashing, what FFR calls a boo should be included. If you don't want to use the same names, you could call that a miss or a slip, and not hitting a note would be a pass.
Instead of a life bar, there could be a penalty bar. The bar would increase any time you let a note pass, press a key outside of the hit window, release a freeze, or hit a mine. The bar would decrease over time and with each note hit. Each point you have in the bar when you make a mistake would be added to your penalty score. If the bar fills, you would fail a song.
The point of this system would be to score you on how often you make mistakes.
I'm not sure if that's close to what you're looking for, but it's not based on accuracy or combo... so, yeah. It's an idea.

+1 I was thinking of a similar idea except with a life bar lol.

[stargroup]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

Here's something of an idea...

If accuracy doesn't matter, then you only need a judge window for "hit".
To penalize mashing, what FFR calls a boo should be included. If you don't want to use the same names, you could call that a miss or a slip, and not hitting a note would be a pass.
Instead of a life bar, there could be a penalty bar. The bar would increase any time you let a note pass, press a key outside of the hit window, release a freeze, or hit a mine. The bar would decrease over time and with each note hit. Each point you have in the bar when you make a mistake would be added to your penalty score. If the bar fills, you would fail a song.
The point of this system would be to score you on how often you make mistakes.
I'm not sure if that's close to what you're looking for, but it's not based on accuracy or combo... so, yeah. It's an idea.

"Boos" would be bad because you could accidentally hit keys you didn't mean to. I actually find them very annoying. On top of that, some people do feel advantages to tapping out keys that aren't there or they do it to keep themselves interested during boring parts of a song.

Penalty bar is actually an interesting idea. I'll think about that one. Although in the end it's not much different from a life bar.

Simply hit or miss is too simple though. If you're not hitting the note accurately enough to feel the file but enough to warrant score, then you should at least be awarded SOMETHING. If wanted something that simple I wouldn't have asked the community for input.

[Kraezymann]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

What if you made the score system similar to IIDX's Expert Course?

Its sort of like Silvuh's idea with the penalty bar but instead of a bar filling up, you start at 100 and drop everytime you get less than a good? Timing windows can stay the same as SM but you use this instead of points?

[buizel8888]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

You could use just hit and miss, but make the timing window more strict

[tunsz555]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

Please don't take combos into scoring. If you have played Osu! before you will know that missed a note middle of song is serious advantage to missing a note in the beginning.

If judgement result are same the score would be same too.

Ps. If you seriously make this new Stepmania you should make new thread about Stepmania's weak point, missing function.

[stargroup]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

explain this missing function

also yes combo will be nothing more than a decoration. no scoring based off combo no siree

buizel I told you already too simple

[TC_Halogen]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

Simply hit or miss is too simple though. If you're not hitting the note accurately enough to feel the file but enough to warrant score, then you should at least be awarded SOMETHING. If wanted something that simple I wouldn't have asked the community for input.

Hmmm...I know you said that you didn't want numbers only, but what if you combined a percentage system of scoring along side of a comparison to a passmark like IIDX/Pop'n?

Here's an idea I had. Alongside of a scoring system, you would use a passmark (per se) for awarding and or penalizing a player based on their performance altogether.

First thing, set your passmark equivalent so the lowest possible passing percentage, to make things even. IIDX likes to set it at 70% (and Pop'n even higher), but I think that's a bit too high. Something like 60% would be a decent grade cut-off not only for a pass, but for a passing lifebar as well.

Next, you come up with a defined score system for your grades. Let's just think about the AA to D range.

AA - 95%
A - 90%
B - 80%
C - 70%
D - 60%

Anything below this would be a fail. Everything above AAA can still be perfects and the AAAA can either be all marvelouses or just completely gone.

Then you can do a passmark percentage and incorporate it within the main score. Based off of what you said:

Simply hit or miss is too simple though. If you're not hitting the note accurately enough to feel the file but enough to warrant score, then you should at least be awarded SOMETHING. If wanted something that simple I wouldn't have asked the community for input.

I agree with this. The way I was thinking of awarding the player is awarding them based off of how well they do on the song. General formula would be something like this

< 60% = DP% - % below passmark/10
> 60% = DP% + % above passmark/20

Example:
Player 1 finishes song X with 62% DP and a lifebar of 30%. They are 30% below the passmark, so they'll be deducted 3%, giving them a 59% and causing them to fail.

Player 2 finishes song X with 58% DP and a lifebar of 100%. They are 40% above the passmark, so they'll get a bonus of 2%, giving them a 60% and causing them to pass.

Good thing about this is that if a player does particularly well on a song that they have trouble with, and they finish strong, they can get rewarded just enough to cause them to get them to the grade that they want.

Alternatively, if you were to have an AAA and hit something that you weren't supposed (i.e. a mine), you wouldn't lose DP in this instance because the all perfect run would be something that overrides the passmark--it'd just drop your machine score a tiny bit.

Something like that. I'm just brainstorming.

[stargroup]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

Not bad at all. Liking the passing system. I'm also considering the possibility of removing fail-outs. Sometimes it's fun just to mash through a song and try your best.

However:

S - 98%
A - 95%
B - 90%
C - 80%
D - 70%
E - 60%

I was thinking something along those lines. As people get better and better and the levels get harder and harder, it becomes easier and easier to hit high DP's close to 100%, and that's why AA's are so ridiculously common in StepMania. By pushing this as close to 100% as possible, we can close that gap and balance out the letter ranks.

Of course I just pulled that number out of my butt. Obviously we're gonna have to do some analysis before we decide on what DP's to set for each letter grade.

[gnr61]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

passmark would be an interesting idea for stepmania but ultimately not a -whole- lot better than progressive scoring in that it arbitrarily favors one section of the file (end) in terms of scoring value. structural differences in files would lead to percentage comparisons lacking any referential significance, a presumed goal of percentage scoring in the first place. according to your model you also leave open the potential (intentional or otherwise) of acquiring over 100% total dp on a given song which doesn't make a lot of sense.

a hit-or-miss model in terms of accuracy scoring would be completely inefficient for this game as opposed to something like guitar hero (which includes what silvah refers to as 'slips' and other alternative score-alterers like star power bonuses) for the simple reason that it would result in absurd amounts of people obtaining indistinguishably close or identical scores on nearly every chart and the only charts that would end up being significant indicators of skill would be those generally resulting in massive cb discrepancy between players, a la death moon, rain etc; and no one wants that do they D:

sorry i don't have anything productive to say

edit: actually my criticisms on the passmark thing only -really- apply to the dp bonus element and not so much to the passmark itself which might be alright

[Patashu]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

Instead of 'boos' you could have IIDX's 'poors' which you get if you hit an extra NEAR notes on the chart that are ineligible (either because they're outside of the lowest scoring window or have already been hit)

Concerning the penalty bar: I actually think a REVERSE penalty bar would be better. From personal experience, when I'm bad at a rhythm game I get combo breakers at a consistent pace, not so much piled up in single areas. Therefore a pattern of consistently breaking combo is a sign of the song being very hard for you, where as accidental slips that rack up several CBs at once might just be accidental. So there actually is some worth in GH style combo scoring, where you're penalized for having widely distributed combo breakers but not for getting a large clump in a row by mistake nor overly rewarded for having an extensively long combo (maxes out at 4x)

[Xiaounlimited]

Re: ATTN: Scoring System Needed

S - 98%
A - 95%
B - 90%
C - 80%
D - 70%
E - 60%

I was thinking something along those lines. As people get better and better and the levels get harder and harder, it becomes easier and easier to hit high DP's close to 100%, and that's why AA's are so ridiculously common in StepMania. By pushing this as close to 100% as possible, we can close that gap and balance out the letter ranks.

How about simply abolishing letter grades altogether? It's perfectly feasible to just have the DP%.

The best example I can think of would be ITG; if you ever watch a video, there is never a C/S+/star/double/whatever in the title. "Mechanical Love - 99.14%" That has specific, and oftentimes, more meaningful information than "AA".

IMHO - figure out the scoring system period and ignore the need for letter grades. That's just me, though.