Secret and Purchased

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  • hi19hi19
    lol happy
    FFR Simfile Author
    • Oct 2005
    • 12194

    #1

    Secret and Purchased

    Secret and Purchased basically do the same thing- reward more credits with more files. That's good.
    Problem is, they do it in two conflicting ways (amass credits vs spend credits)
    It's frequently confusing to beginners when they purchase a song then suddenly one of their favorite Secret files disappears.

    Proposed solution: fold the Secret genre into Purchased.
    Why not the other way around?
    First of all, FFR needs more credit sinks, this is a perfect way.
    Second of all, it will create more cheap Purchased files. People like unlocking things; creating lots of 50 and 100 price Purchased files gives people lots of goodies to grab as they improve.
    Finally, it gives people more choice to unlock things in the order they want. Choice is good.

    How do we price these charts? Simple, simply take the difference in credits it would take to unlock them as a Secret chart, and make that their Purchased price.

    Code:
    Credit Requirement of Secret Songs[COLOR="Red"] - New Purchased Price[/COLOR]
    -------------------------------------------------------
    1. {Lazy Summer Days} (50)[COLOR="Red"] - 50[/COLOR]
    2. Ding Dong Song [Light] (100)[COLOR="Red"] - 50[/COLOR]
    3. Fett's Vette (150)[COLOR="Red"] - 50[/COLOR]
    4. La Luna Caida (200)[COLOR="Red"] - 50[/COLOR]
    5. Ingenuity (250)[COLOR="Red"] - 50[/COLOR]
    6. FFR Evolution (300)[COLOR="Red"] - 50[/COLOR]
    7. Water Like Pudding (350)[COLOR="Red"] - 50[/COLOR]
    8. Synesthetic (400)[COLOR="Red"] - 50[/COLOR]
    9. Green Twilight (450)[COLOR="Red"] - 50[/COLOR]
    10. Betrayal of Fate (500)[COLOR="Red"] - 50[/COLOR]
    11. Abtrusity (600)[COLOR="Red"] - 100[/COLOR]
    12. Visions (700)[COLOR="Red"] - 100[/COLOR]
    13. Noir Remixed (800)[COLOR="Red"] - 100[/COLOR]
    14. Force Of Light (900)[COLOR="Red"] - 100[/COLOR]
    15. End Night (1,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 100[/COLOR]
    16. Yukitsukiyashou (1,200)[COLOR="Red"] - 200[/COLOR]
    17. For FFR (1,500)[COLOR="Red"] - 300[/COLOR]
    18. Csikos Post (1,700)[COLOR="Red"] - 200[/COLOR]
    19. MAX Forever (1,800)[COLOR="Red"] - 100[/COLOR]
    20. 2008 (2,008)[COLOR="Red"] - 2008 [/COLOR](this is an exception, for legacy's sake)
    21. Radiant (2,200)[COLOR="Red"] - 400[/COLOR]
    22. Hyper Pressure (2,500)[COLOR="Red"] - 300[/COLOR]
    23. Guitar Sounds (2,800)[COLOR="Red"] - 300[/COLOR]
    24. Gradeus (3,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 200[/COLOR]
    25. Song of the second moon (3,200)[COLOR="Red"] - 200[/COLOR]
    26. Destination Unknown (3,500)[COLOR="Red"] - 300[/COLOR]
    27. Summer -Speedy Mix- (4,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 500[/COLOR]
    28. Voodoo People (4,500)[COLOR="Red"] - 500[/COLOR]
    29. Camel (4,800)[COLOR="Red"] - 300[/COLOR]
    30. Shihen (5,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 200[/COLOR]
    31. Ark (5,500)[COLOR="Red"] - 500[/COLOR]
    32. Mute City Remix (6,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 500[/COLOR]
    33. Automata (6,500)[COLOR="Red"] - 500[/COLOR]
    34. Gaussian Blur 3 (7,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 500[/COLOR]
    35. Fast Asleep (7,500) [COLOR="Red"]- 500[/COLOR]
    36. Shining Sky (8,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 500[/COLOR]
    37. Kick Your A (9,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 1000[/COLOR]
    38. Lawn Wake IV (10,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 1000[/COLOR]
    39. Strangeprogram (12,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 2000[/COLOR]
    40. Flesvelka (13,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 1000[/COLOR]
    41. Rottel-da-station (15,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 2000[/COLOR]
    42. Grocery Escape Plan (18,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 3000[/COLOR]
    43. World Tour 2004 (20,040)[COLOR="Red"] - 2004 [/COLOR](another exception)
    44. Arrogant Cobbler (22,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 4000[/COLOR]
    45. honki sentai majirenjaa -MAJI eurobeat version- (23,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 1000[/COLOR]
    46. K8107 (25,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 2000[/COLOR]
    47. Puzzle (28,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 3000[/COLOR]
    48. Midnight Dragon (30,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 2000[/COLOR]
    49. Cinnamon Roll (32,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 2000[/COLOR]
    50. Bogey at your Six (33,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 1000[/COLOR]
    51. Blue Noah (35,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 2000[/COLOR]
    52. Blue Army (40,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 5000[/COLOR]
    53. Blue Rose (45,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 5000[/COLOR]
    54. Rain [YMCK] (48,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 3000[/COLOR]
    55. Pants (50,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 2000[/COLOR]
    56. Jamais Deux (55,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 5000[/COLOR]
    57. Szerencsétlen (60,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 5000[/COLOR]
    58. Chik Habit (65,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 5000[/COLOR]
    59. Final Fantasy Last Battle Festival (70,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 5000[/COLOR]
    60. Hellhounds On My Trail (80,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 10000[/COLOR]
    61. Red Wings Over Baron (90,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 10000[/COLOR]
    62. He's A Radical Rat (100,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 10000[/COLOR]
    63. Staring at my Spaceship (120,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 20000[/COLOR]
    64. ==Planet KARMA== (150,000)[COLOR="Red"] - 30000[/COLOR]
    Besides the two exceptions, this will make no difference in how many songs people have- if they have the credits for the songs in Secret, they will have enough credits to buy them all in the new system as well.


    Thoughts?


  • rushyrulz
    Digital Dancing!
    FFR Simfile Author
    FFR Music Producer
    • Feb 2006
    • 12985

    #2
    Re: Secret and Purchased

    Disagree.


    Comment

    • Trogdor!!!!
      Forum User
      • Jul 2008
      • 1664

      #3
      Re: Secret and Purchased

      I like this, but it's probably because I don't have Spaceship and Karma. Well... I also like it because some of the later secret songs make me want to facepalm and this is a way to know what you're getting.
      Violets Forever

      Comment

      • rayword45
        Local Teenage Wastebasket
        FFR Simfile Author
        • Feb 2007
        • 3212

        #4
        Re: Secret and Purchased

        Agreed. It's a hell of a lot less confusing this way.

        Of course, I feel having both Secret and Purchased has its own special novelty.
        The above post has a 50% chance of being useless. Potentially. Maybe.

        BEST AAAs: WANDERLUST, Pandora, Necropotence, Mourning The Lost, Eradication, Feldschlacht

        Hey, we need some users on this site. Please join.

        And if you have not recommended any albums yet, do so. Please. I have a goal to reach. Here.
        NO WAIT THAT SHIT'S OLD GO HERE INSTEAD.

        Comment

        • hi19hi19
          lol happy
          FFR Simfile Author
          • Oct 2005
          • 12194

          #5
          Re: Secret and Purchased

          Originally posted by rushyrulz
          Disagree.
          Care to... elaborate?
          I thought I made some pretty good points as to why this change would make sense.
          The only reason I could think for disagreeing at the moment is a sense of nostalgia for the Secret system, but I'd love to know of other issues you see.


          Comment

          • ninjaKIWI
            plain old ugly ass dumbas
            FFR Simfile Author
            • Aug 2006
            • 3304

            #6
            Re: Secret and Purchased

            No, I disagree. If this were implemented you could just skip every song to get Planet Karma, where with the Secret system you have to wade through all of the songs.

            EDIT: I would be okay with this if you were only able to purchase the songs in the original order that they were in.
            Last edited by ninjaKIWI; 01-2-2012, 03:50 PM.
            Originally posted by Jewpinthethird
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            "Hey Foil. What's that you got there?" inquired Keywii.
            "Oh, just my cock." Replied Foil.
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            "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Yelled Foil in horror.
            "Don't worry. I'm a wizard" uttered Keywii. And with that, Foil's penis grew back.

            Comment

            • wildfireskunk
              Purveyor of tea
              • Sep 2004
              • 1247

              #7
              Re: Secret and Purchased

              I love the idea. Although, I'd say that if it were possible, perhaps make it so that the secret songs didn't unlock in the shop until your account has had a total credit turnover of the amount it'd require to unlock. That'd still keep them kinda special :3
              ITG guru, FFR noob, wants to hug every cat.

              Comment

              • hi19hi19
                lol happy
                FFR Simfile Author
                • Oct 2005
                • 12194

                #8
                Re: Secret and Purchased

                Originally posted by ninjaKIWI
                No, I disagree. If this were implemented you could just skip every song to get Planet Karma, where with the Secret system you have to wade through all of the songs.

                EDIT: I would be okay with this if you were only able to purchase the songs in the original order that they were in.
                I see no problem with being able to buy Planet Karma (or any of the other high-Secret files) with your first 30000 credits. I mean, it is fcking 30k, not something beginners are just going to get in one day.
                Isn't the point of this game to enjoy it? I don't like forcing people to "wade through" files or songs they don't like. Even the term "wade" makes it sound laborious, which is not good gameplay.


                Comment

                • rushyrulz
                  Digital Dancing!
                  FFR Simfile Author
                  FFR Music Producer
                  • Feb 2006
                  • 12985

                  #9
                  Re: Secret and Purchased

                  Elaborate? sure.

                  There is no reason we need to do this. This would just be changing the game for the sake of changing the game. There's nothing wrong with the current system and 'amass credits vs spend credits' isn't a big enough conundrum to invoke change, nor is it a problem. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


                  Comment

                  • wildfireskunk
                    Purveyor of tea
                    • Sep 2004
                    • 1247

                    #10
                    Re: Secret and Purchased

                    Originally posted by hi19hi19
                    I don't like forcing people to "wade through" files or songs they don't like. Even the term "wade" makes it sound laborious, which is not good gameplay.
                    This. I would break kneecaps to unlock K8107 and Blue Army.

                    @rushy - If someone suggests ideas that most people would see as an 'improvement' to the current system, there's no reason not to change it. I agree with hi9 that unlocking those secret songs is SUCH a chore. I don't want to keep my credits, I want to spend them :< I'm sure lots of other n00bs who know nothing about the secret song system would find it more helpful too, since it's no explained ingame and lots of players don't frequent the forums.

                    And I'm sure I've seen Velocity somewhere mention that the lack of ways of getting rid of your credits is something that they're trying to think of ways to 'fix'. This would be a good one. Especially if you could stagger the unlocking of the songs in the shop, as I suggested.
                    Last edited by wildfireskunk; 01-2-2012, 04:02 PM.
                    ITG guru, FFR noob, wants to hug every cat.

                    Comment

                    • Ninty64
                      FFR Player
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 738

                      #11
                      Re: Secret and Purchased

                      I agree that the system is confusing and that something should be done about that. But I don't see the need to change the entire system.

                      Maybe they could create a page where you 'store' credits that would tell you how many credits you have stored for secret songs, how many more credits you need to unlock the next song, and what secret songs you have already unlocked. That way you could separate secret song credits from 'liquid' credits without changing the system. It would also be less confusing for newbies.

                      Comment

                      • rayword45
                        Local Teenage Wastebasket
                        FFR Simfile Author
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 3212

                        #12
                        Re: Secret and Purchased

                        Contrastly, because of the whole "Planet KARMA price" issue, we could do vice-versa, raise reqs for certain songs, and liquidate Purchased into secret.
                        The above post has a 50% chance of being useless. Potentially. Maybe.

                        BEST AAAs: WANDERLUST, Pandora, Necropotence, Mourning The Lost, Eradication, Feldschlacht

                        Hey, we need some users on this site. Please join.

                        And if you have not recommended any albums yet, do so. Please. I have a goal to reach. Here.
                        NO WAIT THAT SHIT'S OLD GO HERE INSTEAD.

                        Comment

                        • wildfireskunk
                          Purveyor of tea
                          • Sep 2004
                          • 1247

                          #13
                          Re: Secret and Purchased

                          Originally posted by rayword45
                          Contrastly, because of the whole "Planet KARMA price" issue, we could do vice-versa, raise reqs for certain songs, and liquidate Purchased into secret.
                          That would entirely negate the point of doing it the other way around to stop the mass buildup of credits.
                          ITG guru, FFR noob, wants to hug every cat.

                          Comment

                          • Netjet!
                            Sic itur ad astra
                            FFR Simfile Author
                            • Jan 2008
                            • 4701

                            #14
                            Re: Secret and Purchased

                            I'd have to agree with rushy as I don't see a real need for this system. It sounds alright but what we have now isn't horrible enough to warrant a big change IMO.
                            RIP Steve Van Ness <3

                            Comment

                            • justin_ator
                              🥓<strong><span style="col
                              • Mar 2007
                              • 7648

                              #15
                              Re: Secret and Purchased

                              I like this idea, and I honestly support it. If you guys think people should be more inclined to purchase other songs first, raise the price more on PK. Honestly new players aren't going to spend 30k on a 12 when they can't FC 4's.

                              The only reason I can see this being not worth it is because it would require a movement of the whole secret genre into purchased, but hell I'd do that if I had access to the correct file. You guys say we don't need the system, but let's weight the pros and cons.

                              Pros:
                              Less Credits
                              Less Hassle/confusion for new players
                              Less conflict and frustration between the two systems
                              Creates more cheap Purchased files
                              Gives people more choice to unlock things in the order they want
                              New change

                              Cons:
                              Moving songs into another genre
                              New change

                              I'll gladly add things to this list as you state arguments.
                              (Chris, feel free to add this to your OP, just quote me if you want to get the bb code [not that it's much])
                              Last edited by justin_ator; 01-2-2012, 05:12 PM.

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