Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

[icontrolyourworld]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

i'm still for rates over 1 to count for something

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

The only thing making rates count does is make it faster to get avrank. I am pretty confident there's nothing to argue there.

What does avrank measure ? Quite obviously, your average rank on all the songs in the game ("public" songs). It is a metric that is well known, although it is one that does not reflect skill nearly as well as the more recent metric that is your Skill Level. Avrank could've arguably benefited from the proposed change when it was the main metric of skill, as it would've made sense to provide a way for better players to climb the leaderboards faster.

That being said, there is absolutely no reason to make rates count as 1.0 scores other than, well, "I want to improve my placement on that metric faster", which is just making the game easier for nothing

Devonin argued that a good thing it does is make it not boring. And well the OP here shared concerns about avrank being boring. My opinion is that if you want to improve your avrank, you must be a completionist kind of player, because a competitive one would focus on Skill Level. Please let me know if there are any other reasons why one would focus on Avrank nowadays. So, going with the completionist idea, if you want to improve avrank but cannot bear with the tedious task that is to play all files on 1.0, then simply give up. There's not much more to it really.

[Matthia]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

i'm still for rates over 1 to count for something

Sure, a profile stat displaying one's best file AAA'ed on 1.1x, 1.2x, etc. is something I'd wish to have but still, anything else that can save rates should not be associated with skill rating, average rank, etc.

Negative. Level is a fairly new thing. Average rank has always been here.

What does time of implementation have to do with any of this??

[TheSaxRunner05]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

The only thing making rates count does is make it faster to get avrank. I am pretty confident there's nothing to argue there.

I wouldn't say the only thing. I have a feeling a lot of people would use rates for scores to record without explicitly playing through every song in the game. The people that don't care about average rank at all would still play rates for enjoyment more often just seeing the score counted.

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

I wouldn't say the only thing. I have a feeling a lot of people would use rates for scores to record without explicitly playing through every song in the game. The people that don't care about average rank at all would still play rates for enjoyment more often just seeing the score counted.

If they play the song on rates for fun and not for completion of metrics, then they shouldnt care that the score is counted or not towards anything.

Edit: just to clarify, I would be 100% down to have new metrics that use rates. However I totally share Matthia's opinion that it has nothing to do with avrank whatsoever. In other words, let avrank be the average rank of all files played on 1.0 rate.

[YoshL]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

tbh the biggest proponent of rates +1 counting right now is

we have an actual ffr ranking system that isn't avg rank anymore.

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

tbh the biggest proponent of rates +1 counting right now is

we have an actual ffr ranking system that isn't avg rank anymore.

Care to elaborate ?

[YoshL]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

avg rank is no longer the forefront of importance when it comes to ffr rank, now we have calculated top scores instead.

avg rank just becomes this long and arduous grind that only will keep growing in the future to maintain, and instead of asking people "wow this is unfair to people who grinded out levelranks", why not ask "how can we change ffr design to make ffr more appealing to stay around"

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

avg rank is no longer the forefront of importance when it comes to ffr rank, now we have calculated top scores instead.

avg rank just becomes this long and arduous grind that only will keep growing in the future to maintain, and instead of asking people "wow this is unfair to people who grinded out levelranks", why not ask "how can we change ffr design to make ffr more appealing to stay around"

Simple, make new metrics. Have a "Songs passed" or a "Files AAA'd on 1.5" (to keep rates simple), or keep track of the AAA of each files on the highest rate (for each player) which only requires double the data (nbd).

I personally enjoy that avrank grind and it motivates me to play the latest files too. If your way to make this game more appealing is to make avrank grinding easier/faster, then mate you need to work on your game design ideas; that's a shitty solution as it not only adds nothing to the game, but yes it does remove some of the accomplishment of the people who grinded it as initially intended.

Dont fix it if it aint broken, but in this case it's worse you'd break something that's already perfectly fine just because you dont enjoy the grind. Like I said to the OP, change your focus, that's it, work on something else that the game offers (FCs, AAAs, Tier Points, Grandtotal, Skill Level (!!!), heck even stepping charts).

[YoshL]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

i think if you're calling it a "shitty solution" you're already in the "i don't want to be convinced" camp, which is kinda unfortunate

what rates counting adds to the game is people going back and revisiting files that they would pretty much never do otherwise.

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

i think if you're calling it a "shitty solution" you're already in the "i don't want to be convinced" camp, which is kinda unfortunate

what rates counting adds to the game is people going back and revisiting files that they would pretty much never do otherwise.

Ok let me answer to each sentence to be even clearer.

1. You say that because I call it a shitty solution, it must be because I don't want to be convince.

Ok, did you read any of my arguments in this thread ? I don't see replies to any of them except SaxRunner, to whom I replied in hopes to clarify. I called it shitty because of reasons I explicitely stated, and you avoid them. Sorry but I think you're in that very bucket of not wanting to be convinced atm.

2. It would make people revisit files, which they don't do right now.

Yes, it might, purely because they would get avrank out of it, since that's the only thing the proposed change does. You take away a bit of the accomplishment of some to make that same, grindy accomplishment easiers for other. Again, that's a shitty solution. I hate to repeat myself as I Just mentionned the "why" in my previous post, but here: You can simply add new metrics which use rates, and suddenly you make everyone happy and end this debate. Let avrank be, it's pretty simple no ?

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

Here are the different types of people affected:

1. "I want rates to count toward something, to add diversity in metrics"
2. "I want to be rewarded for playing files that are slow for me, without it being boring"
3. "I want to keep the avrank metric as is, as I get satisfaction from the grind that I go/went through"

All three are very logical and they're opinions.
There are solutions (I mentionned a few) to satisfy all three.
Changing avrank does not.

[revolutionomega]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

I would definitely love a metric for rates to revisit some older files that I haven't played in literally a decade.

How that's implemented... not sure! I agree that I don't believe it should impact your tier points/avg rank/skill at 1.0 but more of a separate queue (i.e. in League having a Solo Queue ranking, Teams Ranking, 3v3 ranking).

Would be cool to see a list of scores at each rate mod.

[Dinglesberry]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

ITT:

Everyone: Yeah I think rates would be cool, I dont really mind but its alright I guess either way

People who have already grinded all the easy song AAAs: MUH ACCOMPLISHMENTS U CANT TAKE EM AWAY!! DEY TOOK ERR COMMPLISHMENTS

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

You: cant make an argument on either side so might as well attempt to laugh at the opposing opinion for no reason so maybe people will follow me

Nah dude