Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

[SputnikOwns]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

Yeah it should count of course.

[rushyrulz]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

On a serious note, I do think Rates above 1x should count to increase enjoyment of the game. It gives another avenue to interact more with FFR and increase activity around here. I liked Etienne's video about rates awhile back, it had some good points.

In a separate leaderboard yeah. They already give GTS and credits, so it "counts" in that aspect. But I think people have been asking for rate leaderboards for a while.

[Gradiant]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

You: cant make an argument on either side so might as well attempt to laugh at the opposing opinion for no reason so maybe people will follow me

Nah dude

cant really talk shit here though when you had just looked at yoshls post and called it a shitty idea. That's not very helpful either compared to dingles post

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

cant really talk shit here though when you had just looked at yoshls post and called it a shitty idea. That's not very helpful either compared to dingles post

I'll take that blame, can't say I'm not tired to provide arguments without them being adressed, especially when the person tries to argue the opposite. I do my best to explain why I believe every pros that "rates count for avrank" has aren't real pros (or at least are suboptimal).

Nobody Has to reply to my arguments though, I know.
I apologize, Yoshl. I hope however that if we're to debate further, you carefully read my points and debate those too.

[Dinglesberry]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

In a separate leaderboard yeah. They already give GTS and credits, so it "counts" in that aspect. But I think people have been asking for rate leaderboards for a while.

whenenver someone brings this up people always ask how many there would be, like, would it be every .1 or .05 etc... osu solves this by just making the only rates 0.75, 1.0 and 1.5, but their way is bad in a million ways that I won't get into

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

whenenver someone brings this up people always ask how many there would be, like, would it be every .1 or .05 etc... osu solves this by just making the only rates 0.75, 1.0 and 1.5, but their way is bad in a million ways that I won't get into

The number isnt a big issue; velo checks how much data is fine to save and that gives us how many rates we can have. The UI would likely be the same for .1 or .001 increments, unless we want to display more than one rate per page of the leaderboard. Also obviously we can't have those scores count towards Skill Level in any legit way, but having just these leaderboards of rated scores would be nice.

[Dinglesberry]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

imma grab me a ton of x1.42069 rate scores

[Trumpet63]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

A change/improvement to the current skill rating formula that takes rates into account is something I've played with before. One assumption of the skill rating formula is that all songs with the same difficulty are equally difficult. Clearly on an individual level this isn't going to be true, but we have a team of people that makes sure it's approximately true otherwise. This becomes a lot messier when you throw rates into the mix.

My impression from talking to people more experienced than me was that rates cannot be assumed to affect all songs of the same difficulty the same. So for example: if I wanted to make a formula that made a statement like: "Song X, which has difficulty 50, if played at a rate of 1.2x will have a difficulty of 60", then, lacking any other information, that statement would have to be true for ALL songs of difficulty 50, or else the formula would never work. So, unless we do think rates affect all songs of the same difficulty the same, a skill rating formula that takes rates into account would need more information than just the song's difficulty, the rate, and a players score on the song.

There are a variety of data science-y ways in which you could get some data to inform this system, some more viable than others.

I found an old internal staff document that outlined a method of having people judge difficulties of rates, so they could be treated like any other song, but it introduces some difficult technical problems, as well as a massively increased workload for judgement staff.

While I think that the current skill rating formula was a huge step in the right direction (if I do say so myself), and has delivered a lot of enjoyment, it's far from the ideal. I hope that once some other more pressing matters are addressed the staff team will get a chance to push forward in this area.

Incidentally, if anyone here is looking for some way of tracking their improvement over time, but doesn't feel like the current FFR site provides enough control or granularity, consider trying: FFR Tracker.

[Hakulyte]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

I'd be for songs recording scores with a rate above 1 from a speedrunning perspective.

I can picture people attempting to marathon this game if they can shorten the overall length of the songs while recording scores.

Considering the overall activity in this game; anything that can help with replay value should be considered tbh.

At least, that's how I view this specifically.

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

I'd be for songs recording scores with a rate above 1 from a speedrunning perspective.

I can picture people attempting to marathon this game if they can shorten the overall length of the songs while recording scores.

Considering the overall activity in this game; anything that can help with replay value should be considered tbh.

At least, that's how I view this specifically.

Adding speedrunning value to this game is essentially adding a new feature. Therefore, you don't need to modify an existing feature (avrank) to support it; just make a new one (the ones I mentionned a few times).

I think it's important to be clear when stating your opinion here now, as the OP was specifically referring to "rates count for avrank", and others just wanted to say they want "rates to count for something" which is different.

[Dinglesberry]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

if rates were added something like a lvl 1-50 speedrun might be pretty fun

[Not devonin]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

I support rates > 1.0 recording as though they were 1.0

It substantially increases the song pool in terms of "Songs I can play that are fun, and actually a reasonable challenge for me" for all players.

My issue with separate rates leaderboards is that there's either a leaderboard for a couple specific pre-chosen rates, or everybody will be rank 1 on every song on their own particular randomly modified choice of rate, neither of which will make many people happy.

Just letting them record at all is, I think just a positive change. We can worry about other stuff after that.

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

It substantially increases the song pool in terms of "Songs I can play that are fun, and actually a reasonable challenge for me" for all players.

You can already play the files on rates, no need to change avrank for that.
Like I said, add a metric for it.

My issue with separate rates leaderboards is that there's either a leaderboard for a couple specific pre-chosen rates, or everybody will be rank 1 on every song on their own particular randomly modified choice of rate, neither of which will make many people happy.

What is that assumption based on ? Osu has the former and they're happy, Etterna has the latter and they're happy. We have neither and we're not happy.

Just letting them record at all is, I think just a positive change. We can worry about other stuff after that.

You don't care about the "other stuff", but others, like me, do.

[Not devonin]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

change avrank? Hunh?

I mean, sure having them record will let them count towards avrank, but I'm thinking about FC and AAA counts more than avrank.

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: Can Song Rates Over 1 Count?

change avrank? Hunh?

I mean, sure having them record will let them count towards avrank, but I'm thinking about FC and AAA counts more than avrank.

Well idk if you've read the thread, but counting towards avrank Is an issue for some, including myself, and adding new stuff related to rates fixes that.