Frame Fix Log

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: Frame Fix Log

NeoMAX has been updated with fixed note colors.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: Frame Fix Log

Got to the rest of the files in the August 23rd list that weren't the note color files.

November 8th 2020 Changelog

Five files were updated.

All i wanna do is touch your powerpoints update
- Fixed all 2-frame 16th jack placements to 3-frame [154 BPM]
- Fixed placements of one of the 64th offset sections to closer match what 8th placements would be

Fox Tales update
- Fixed 2-frame minijack issues that were throughout the file, and the 32nd bursts [174 BPM]

hARPIES15HP update
- Fixed the 2 frame 64th offset minijack at the end to 3 frame [168 BPM]
- Adjusted the 192nd gallops to be aligned with their corresponding 4th note (snare in the first half, whoosh in the second half)

Cest What update
- Fixed the two 1-frame 16th minijacks in the chart [240 BPM]
- Adjusted a few tight minijack bursts

eccentric ghost channel as Poltergeist update
- Updated the rolls mentioned in the post to be consistent [128 BPM]
- Updated a few 64th gallop placements to be 1 frame instead of zero frames apart (with respect to the adjacent 8th note)

Requests after August 23rd as of this post:
- No Purpose Flour
- Elesis Theme Song [Future Bass Remix]
- Ants Of The Sky

[SubaruPoptart]

Re: Frame Fix Log

This is gonna be fun. :) Long overdue too.

Song Information
Song Title: Good L_ck (Yo_'re F_cked)
Song Artist: Celldweller
Link: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/levelstats.php

Description of Issue:

Very very very many framefucked color jumps/hands all throughout the song. Most of them occurring in the choruses.
I'll link the imgur album because there will be so many screenshots. There will also be just a simple list of framefucked jumps/hands to simplify things further from there.
They should all be shifted a frame down or up, whichever is appropriate to turn them into color jumps/hands like they seemed to be intended to be.

https://imgur.com/a/5tQrCeA

#1: Note 65
#2: Note 92
#3: Note 95
#4: Note 207
#5: Note 210
#6: Note 212
#7: Note 283
#8: Note 286
#9: Note 289
#10: Note 292
#11: Note 363
#12: Note 580
#13: Note 586
#14: Note 614
#15: Note 616
#16: Note 903
#17: Note 905
#18: Note 908
#19: Note 911
#20: Note 1321
#21: Note 1324
#22: Note 1476
#23: Note 1479
#24: Note 1629
#25: Note 1631
#26: Note 2177
#27: Note 2180
#28: Note 2334

There are two framefucked ones that are hard to determine, as they come in a section where there are already intentional flams.



Notes 2290 and 2295 are the ones in question in this screenshot.

Other than that, that appears to be it. If there are any mistakes I made along the way in counting or labelling please let me know.

[gold stinger]

Re: Frame Fix Log

Song Title: Super Soaker
Song Artist: Blitz Lunar
Link: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...php?level=2615

Description of Issue(s)
@Note 445, 464, 476, 541, 552
The jumps end up converting to hands when the section is intended to play as stream going into a jump. Makes it incredibly hard/awkward compared to what the file is attempting to portray.

There's plenty other places in the file that could use some TLC specifically in locations where 48ths exist, but the hands are by far the biggest offender in the file.

[CammyGoesRawr]

Re: Frame Fix Log

Song Information
------------------------------------
Song Title: AiAe
Song Artist: Yuyoyuppe
Link: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...php?level=3007

Description of Issue(s)
------------------------------------
The 32nd bursts starting on note 1825 (and all of the 9-note bursts that follow the one shown below) have frame gaps that have this spacing. If possible, the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 7th notes of the burst should be moved down while the 4th and 8th notes of the burst should be moved up. (talking about the order of the notes, not the note values)



The 32nd bursts starting on note 2035 (and the three 5-note bursts that follow) have this spacing where the 32nd note is pushed right before the jump. I suggest in these bursts, the note preceding the jump is moved up a frame (or 2? I'm not sure) while the 2nd and 3rd notes of the bursts are moved down to create as equal spacing as possible.



The 32nd bursts starting on note 2137 (and all of the 5-note bursts that follow it) have spacing that could use similar fixing to the above screenshots of the burst starting at note 2035. The note preceding the red note is too close together and should be moved up a frame (or 2?) while the 2nd and 3rd notes of each burst should be moved down to create as equal spacing as possible.



(I apologize if my way of wording things sounds awkward and repetitive, I tried to be as clear and concise as possible haha)

[SubaruPoptart]

Re: Frame Fix Log

Song Information
Song Title: THE FAUST [Heavy]
Song Artist: Masqued Pierrot
Link: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...php?level=3013

Description of Issue(s):
In the jacky part and in the [34] [1234] transition before, a few notes in the jacks are shifted forward or backward a frame, causing 2-framers where there's normally 3-framers and need shifting to be normal. The jack framers are all in the spoiler there since there's a good amount of them.

Notes 328+329 (the [34] jump)


Note 387


Note 403


Note 456


Notes 466+467 (the [13] jump)


Notes 530+531 (the [24] jump)


Note 540

The roll here is kinda framefucked but I'm not too too sure what's framefucked aside from the 1 [23] 4 in the beginning of it, nor am I sure whether it's framefixable.

[Wiosna]

Re: Frame Fix Log

Song Information
Song Title: Find A Way Out
Song Artist: Aeden & Harley Bird
Link: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...php?level=2829

Description of Issue(s):
The grace notes in Find A Way Out's chorus are 192nds, which create 2,100bpm gallops. As a result, the grace notes are supposed to be hit as jumps alongside the corresponding 4th/8th.

However, from notes 270-813 (the chorus), there are constant 1-frame gaps between certain chords (e.g. notes 274-275, 372-373), which create odd ~300bpm 3-note bursts every now and then. This is not how the chart is supposed to be played, and it's verified by asking the creator of the chart themselves.

Examples are provided here:



There are some other misconverted framers in the chart, but the grace notes there are in sections with just 8th chords, so it wouldn't be anywhere as much of a concern.

[Wiosna]

Re: Frame Fix Log

Song Information
Song Title: Crow's Ghost [Another]
Song Artist: Twenty Knives
Link: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...php?level=2976

Description of Issue(s):
Note 818 is placed a frame too late, creating a 225bpm gallop with note 817. The gallops here are supposed to be played as 190bpm 64ths (760bpm), so a 1-frame gap between notes 817 and 818 would be better (450bpm gap -- not close to 760 but is functionally better than a 0-frame gap).

[SubaruPoptart]

Re: Frame Fix Log

Song Information
Song Title: I'll Fight Back
Song Artist: Sullivan King
Link: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...hp?level=2873#

Description of Issue(s):

From the second drop in the song onward there's a few framebotched jacks, causing 2-framers.
These should be moved up or down a frame depending on where they are to make the 2-framers not exist.

Notes 1161+1162

Move the red [14] down a frame

Note 1179:



Note 1478:

[SubaruPoptart]

Re: Frame Fix Log

Song Information
Song Title: The Nature of Dying
Song Artist: Goreshit
Link: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...php?level=2821

Description of Issues:

34 two-framers.
I'm going to be putting the screenshot album for obvious reasons.

Xel provided me the chart to reference as well so I can even say where the framers need to be moved.

The slow trill section from notes 500-660 may require some framefixing but I'm not 100% sure how to deal with those or if those are even possible to fix. The BPM doesn't slow down from 171 at all in that section so it may be fixable but I can't outright identify anything from what I can see. All I know how to see at the moment are 2-framers. :P

Unclear framers are put in spoilers with the arrowvortex chart vs. the FFR chart.

https://imgur.com/a/eOp5o0o - Here's the album.

#1: Note 135 - Upwards 1 frame
#2: Note 147 - Upwards 1 frame
#3: Note 239 - Upwards 1 frame
#4: Note 389 - Downwards 1 frame
#5: Note 665 - Downwards 1 frame
#6: Note 716 - Upwards 1 frame
#7: Note 779 - Downwards 1 frame
#8: Note 796 - Upwards 1 frame
#9: Note 817 - Downwards 1 frame
#10: Note 822 - Upwards 1 frame
#11: Note 830 - Downwards 1 frame
#12: Note 859 - Upwards 1 frame?
#13: Note 882 - Downwards 1 frame
#14: Note 896/897? - Upwards 1 frame, Downwards if it's 896.
#15: Note 912 - Upwards 1 frame
#16: Note 945 - Downwards 1 frame
#17: Note 951 - Upwards 1 frame
#18: Note 960 - Downwards 1 frame
#19: Note 992/993? - Downwards 1 frame, Upwards if it's 993.
#20: Note 1018 - Downwards 1 frame
#21: Note 1051/1052+1053? - Downwards 1 frame, Upwards if it's the [34].
#22: Note 1095 - Downwards 1 frame
#23: Note 1123/1124? - Downwards 1 frame, Upwards if 1124.
#24: Note 1131 - Downwards 1 frame
#25: Note 1134/1135? - Downwards 1 frame, Upwards if 1135
#26: Note 1138/1139? - Downwards 1 frame, Upwards if 1139
#27: Note 1145 - Downwards 1 frame
#28: Note 1179/1180? - Downwards 1 frame, Upwards if 1180
#29: Note 1276 - Downwards 1 frame
#30: Note 1298 - Upwards 1 frame
#31: Note 1365/1366 - Downwards 1 frame, Upwards if 1366
#32: Note 1448 - Downwards 1 frame
#33: Note 1600 - Upwards 1 frame
#34: Note 1615 - Upwards 1 frame

That took a lot of time so I really really really hope I didn't miss anything or mislabel something. If there are more debatable framers I missed please say so and I can add the AV screenshot alongside them.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: Frame Fix Log

Requests after August 23rd as of this post in the order they were given:
- (Done) No Purpose Flour
- (Done) Elesis Theme Song [Future Bass Remix]
- Ants Of The Sky
- (Done) Good L_ck (Yo_'re F_cked)
- Super Soaker
- (Done) AiAe
- (Done) THE FAUST [Heavy]
- (Done) Find A Way Out
- (Done) Crow's Ghost [Another]
- (Done) I'll Fight Back
- The Nature of Dying

[Pizza69]

Re: Frame Fix Log

On the topic of frame-fixes, I'd like to advocate for erring on the side of conservatism--certain charts have been framefixed *too* much, notably Stress Free Style (the 12th jacks, which are equivalent to nearly 200bpm 16ths, getting nerfed uniformly to 3-framers) and the jumptrill triplets in Fante and JSB (which got spaced out to the point that they're essentially just weird 12th jumptrills). I'm seeing some echoes of that again here. I didn't comment on it before because I don't really care too much and undoing it is far more trouble than it's worth, but I wasn't really a fan of removing all the 2-framers in Fox Tales--it's 174, so nearly half the 16th jacks should convert as 2-framers, and removing *all* of them feels strange to me, which is why I suggested only removing the problematic ones, i.e. the ones in the mini-trills.

Subaru's request for The Nature of Dying seems in this spirit as well. It's 171, so some 2-framers are expected--it seems unreasonable to me to remove *all* of them. The 3-note jacks pointed out are 180bpm post-conversion, which is not an unreasonable speed to approximate them by--certainly it's closer than 150, which they would be post-framefixes. The suggestion at Note 819 is fair, because that pattern is actually made significantly more difficult by being a 2-framer than a straight-up minijack without the jump, so turning it into a 3-framer is likely much closer to how it's meant to be played. The 4-note jack at 893 is actually already as good as it gets--that can't be framefixed out. Of course, it sounds like Subaru's been in contact with Xel, so obviously the will of the actual stepartist overrides all else.

But yeah, in summary, I recommend being sparing with framefixes and only doing them where a pattern really got messed up by conversion or at the will of the stepartist.

[XelNya]

Re: Frame Fix Log

Subaru's request for The Nature of Dying seems in this spirit as well. It's 171, so some 2-framers are expected--it seems unreasonable to me to remove *all* of them. The 3-note jacks pointed out are 180bpm post-conversion, which is not an unreasonable speed to approximate them by--certainly it's closer than 150, which they would be post-framefixes. The suggestion at Note 819 is fair, because that pattern is actually made significantly more difficult by being a 2-framer than a straight-up minijack without the jump, so turning it into a 3-framer is likely much closer to how it's meant to be played. The 4-note jack at 893 is actually already as good as it gets--that can't be framefixed out. Of course, it sounds like Subaru's been in contact with Xel, so obviously the will of the actual stepartist overrides all else.

But yeah, in summary, I recommend being sparing with framefixes and only doing them where a pattern really got messed up by conversion or at the will of the stepartist.

As a prenote: Yes, Subaru did the work on it while in a discord call with me. I did not help, but I told Subaru if he wanted to do this I would happily send him the file for the best results.

I appreciate that someone cared enough to suggest fixing one of my files.

Anywho:

I want to make something clear, if someone wants to go through and point out all the mis-converted notes in any of my work, I will happily send them the file to make their life easier for doing something that makes my file in the game better. If a file spikes in difficulty because *lol frames* that's not what I want, and I don't think most simfile creators want that either.

What you're literally suggesting, is that we leave stuff alone because the game converted it poorly, and that's a bit tone-deaf if you asked me.

But if we maybe want to message the file creator and double check - there's no harm in that. I'm ridiculously particular about modifying my work without consulting me (even changing the song preview would piss me off tbh) so I'd understand that approach if I am honest.

[gold stinger]

Re: Frame Fix Log

I think common ground here would be to reference the initial submitted file (unless the original deets are long gone because it was something submitted prior to like 2012 or something) and use that to determine whether or not a raised concern in this thread is valid or not. Fixing framers in a file to better represent what was initially submitted is always a big +, unless you have some sort of fetishism over the converter grossly converting frames for you (if you do, seek help).

[Pizza69]

Re: Frame Fix Log

What you're literally suggesting, is that we leave stuff alone because the game converted it poorly, and that's a bit tone-deaf if you asked me.

This is not what I'm suggesting at all. I didn't explicitly say it, but I thought I made it clear enough in my previous post that if framers cause unnecessary difficulty spikes, they absolutely should be fixed out because that corrupts the spirit of the file. Same goes for things like flams converting into jumps, or colour jumps converting into flams. The framefixes in Cest What were great, I'm 100% on board with those, and hell, your chart for The Last Step could use some fixes too. My point was that "poor conversion" has sometimes been taken to mean "anything that's not literally the easiest it could've converted as" and that's... not really representative of the chart often times. Hence why I advocate only framefixing where conversion significantly alters the flow or intent of a pattern, or its difficulty relative to the section it's in. Occasional very isolated 2-framers in Fox Tales, for example, don't fit any of those criteria.

The best solution is, as Xel and Gold have mentioned, to run framefixes by the original stepartist before doing them, and then we wouldn't have to speak in such generality, because generality always leads to "what if"s. This might not always be possible, though, and I believe my points are valid and important in those situations as well.