Is veganism wrong?

[who_cares973]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

i drink almond milk instead of regular milk. does that, like, make me part vegan or something? if so is there an option for that when filling out applications?

[supermousie]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

What's vaginaism?

Remember, this is CT...

Sometimes you have to do more than just read the words. Helps to think!!
Everyone comes to these conclusions like "wrong" or "stupid" or "pointless", I'm just saying grow up. It isn't that black and white. If you cared, you'd research it and be involved, since you don't, you make haphazard judgments. No no, vegans could never have any depth, vegans are just assholes that want to criticize my meat-eating!!! Well this is NATURE bitches!!!!!

Calm your farm.

[Cavernio]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

I have no idea where people get the idea that eating vegan is expensive. Meat is far more expensive than meat alternatives like beans and lentils. Dairy is also hugely expensive, and the soy milk at my stores cost the same as cow milk. Pre-prepared food products, which also largely contain mean and dairy, are pretty expensive too. Seafood is also hugely expensive. I could not argue more that being vegan is cheaper than eating 'regularly'. If you never cook for yourself, being vegan would be more expensive than not, but that is the only way it would be so.

I will concede that it can be a pain in the ass though, reading labels and stuff. But, there is a learning curve to this too. You're going to start buying those products you know you like that are vegan, and you will know pretty quickly what animal by-products name's are called. You will also find that many products you already like and enjoy, are already vegan. Things like Oreo's are vegan and delicious, yet I wonder how many people would avoid them if they advertised that they are vegan? If you were to switch to veganism, after a couple months, it would not be the huge pain that it was at the start.

It is easy to get complete protein from a vegan diet. While individual things like vegetables and grains often aren't complete in the variety of protein they offer, you will not have a problem as long as you don't, say, eat only rice or something. The pure amount of protein to stay healthy is hugely over-rated. And the only nutrient that all vegans need to take is B12. Besides which, most people are advised to take a multi-vitamin everyday, vegan or not.

Being vegan and having someone talk about it and ask you why you eat meat, is not the same as lording it over you. To try and convince you to be vegan is NOT the same thing as having someone tell you to not be gay, not in the least.

Having sex with someone of your sex directly hurts no one.
Eating meat hurts animals.
End of argument.

The fact that people once used to survive largely on meat is irrelevant to any logical discussion of veganism (as are those people who are vegan because the bible tells them so...yes, those people exist.) Most farmed animals are raised in appalling conditions. Most people would not choose to work in this industry, but because it is easy to ignore what is essentially animal torture, most people eat meat. This is why groups like PETA are still around. Funny thing is, is that meat is only inexpensive because of the inhumane practices to raising it.

To eat meat is only easy because that's the societal norm. It would be just as easy for people to not eat meat if the norm were for meat to not be eaten, for supermarkets to have pre-prepared vegan foods that taste good.

I am not vegan, but I will only eat meat from the local farmer's market from people who advertise decent living conditions for their animals. I eat beef and drink milk and eat non-battery eggs and so far eat all seafood. I occasionally will eat other meat products because I like meat and because when my bf is eating his stupid pogo, I want a bite.

It is better to try and fail at veganism or vegetarianism than to not bother because you know you will fail at some point. Again, the more people who become vegan, the easier it will be to be vegan.

There is absolutely no reason that veganism or vegetarianism is wrong. Personally, ethically, it is clearly more ethical to not factory farm animals. Environmentally, to not farm any animals is by far the best choice for humanity.

[ELRayford]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

Veganism is fine as long as u can have bacon with it.

[Cavernio]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

Alright, I'm just going to give my honest opinion about this. I believe vegans are just huge attention whores. If you're vegetarian, thats fine, as those people usually only do that for health reasons, but the whole vegan thing is ridiculous. I understand having a love for animals(I think they're adorable), but there's nothing wrong with eating them. Sure, you shouldn't abuse them, but its just a cycle of life to eat them. There are plenty of animals in the animal kingdom who eat other animals, so what's the difference between them and us? After all, we are mammals. Looking past that, as already mentioned, it is extremely hard to be a healthy vegan; you practically have to be rich to get what you need in your body. If you are vegan, fine, I'm not going to hate you or anything, but I do find veganism to be extremely stupid.

You concede that you love animals, and you shouldn't abuse them, but then you say that veganism is stupid. Just because it is part of most human's life cycles to eat meat, does not mean it has to be. Your argument for thinking vegetarianism is stupid is analogous to saying something like, "Well, lots of people in Africa commit genocide, therefore its perfectly fine for me to commit murder in the US."

If you really think its wrong to abuse animals too, you should by no means be eating most meats. Seriously, pigs in factory farms die from the noxious fumes of their own shit. Egg-laying chickens barely live a year before they loose all their feathers from being jammed so badly into cages that they can't even turn around. And all that so that your egg can cost you 25 cents instead of 80 cents.

Humans do not need meat to stay healthy, and the fact that we do or the fact that we evolved eating it are by no means proof that we do.

And you can't get mad at me for preaching here, as if I'm shoving this down your throat. I didn't make the thread.

[Cavernio]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

**** I miss bacon

[G.S.M]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

I eat pigs raw. Delicious! I just gnaw on the bones after I'm done. mmmmmmmm good.

[ELRayford]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

**** I miss bacon

http://www.food.com/recipe/vegan-bacon-148899

Don't let veganism stop you from enjoying bacon! MMMMM TOFU.

[ffraxis]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

veganism is not right considering that it is a personal life style choice; it becomes wrong in the eyes of people who cannot handle conflicting perspectives, and when people try to force veganism.

really subjective.

[supermousie]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

If you really think its wrong to abuse animals too, you should by no means be eating most meats. Seriously, pigs in factory farms die from the noxious fumes of their own shit. Egg-laying chickens barely live a year before they loose all their feathers from being jammed so badly into cages that they can't even turn around.

Those are probably the more extreme examples of animal cruelty...

Humans do not need meat to stay healthy, and the fact that we do or the fact that we evolved eating it are by no means proof that we do.

Err, yes we do, especially if "Sweet, sweet bacon" is involved. Without meat we'd still be in the trees, and there'd be no such thing as tofu, let alone a modern society.

...as if I'm shoving this down your throat. I didn't make the thread.

That's what he said, and creating this thread wasn't for opportunistic people to 'preach' about vegan/vegetarianism, but more for discussing the factors of veganism.

The points you raised are (mostly) good, as to why vegans would do what they do, but personally, I think the pros outweigh the cons being an omnivore.

My God, what have I done? Veganism can be so wrong yet be so correct on SO MANY GODDAMN LEVELS!

@ElRayford: That tofu bacon looks f***ing dirty xD

[vro]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

I'm getting tired of trying to argue in this thread. Whenever posts of mine are quoted, certain points I make are always completely ignored.

Your argument for thinking vegetarianism is stupid... If you really think its wrong to abuse animals too, you should by no means be eating most meats. Seriously, pigs in factory farms die from the noxious fumes of their own shit. Egg-laying chickens barely live a year before they loose all their feathers from being jammed so badly into cages that they can't even turn around. And all that so that your egg can cost you 25 cents instead of 80 cents...And you can't get mad at me for preaching here, as if I'm shoving this down your throat. I didn't make the thread.

If you look at the post you quoted from me, I clearly say...

If you're vegetarian, thats fine.

As far as the way animals are treated in factories and farms, I can see your argument, really, I can. And I agree that the way they are killed is a pretty sad fact in today's society. But, in the end, they die anyway, right? Now then, you could argue that any living being's destiny is to die someday, but these animals that are killed for their meat are destined to be killed. Since their lives exist for this sole reason, does it really matter if they are killed nicely or not-so-nice? I would prefer if animals could be killed in a more "humane" way, but things like PETA aren't going to change that. Besides, have you ever lived in the wild? Animals like bears and wolves don't instantly kill their prey if they don't want to. Hell, they can end up torturing them for hours. But we don't make a big deal out of that, do we?

Here is the last point I want to make, which I'll start with this quote from an earlier post of mine:

If you are vegan, fine, I'm not going to hate you or anything, but I do find veganism to be extremely stupid.

Now then, let me explain what I mean by this in more detail. I agree that veganism is a choice, and there isn't a right or wrong answer to whether or not it is okay. Thus, if YOU are vegan, thats fine! I'm not gonna think of you as a bad person just because you're vegan(but if you shove it down my throat, then my opinion of you will go for the worse.) However, I would never want to be vegan, so I PERSONALLY find it to be stupid for ME. I've said this before and I'll say it again; its like the ordeal with gay people. Am I gay? No. Would I ever be gay? No, I would personally find that to be disgusting. Do I think you're disgusting if you're gay? No, some of my best friends are gay. Now then, I didn't say that to start some argument of whether you're born with it or if its choice, but the point I'm trying to make is that just because I PERSONALLY find something to be revolting doesn't necesarilly mean I find someone else to be revolting just because they decide to do it. And Syhto, calm the hell down. There is nothing wrong with you trying to state your points and opinions, thats what this forum is for. However, there is no need to act like everyone else who doesn't agree with you is a complete retard, its a bit ridiculous.

[Syhto]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

no. i am calm, i just like using exclamation points. the feigned anger is supposed to help get my point across. but obviously people want to keep dancing around that so nvm. wish actual info could be discussed, rather than the same tired judgments that float around with little thought put into them. w/e. I just think if you're going to post in critical thinking you should think critically about the subject and have something to bring to the table. but that's in an ideal world and this is ffr, so what am I even typing for

[supermousie]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

You answered your own question.

that's in an ideal world and this is ffr, so what am I even typing for

U mad?

[poleaxe]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

I eat meat more than probably any other food group and I am healthy... Want to know how? I don't eat tons of sweets and I EXERCISE! So if its about being healthy and fit then just exercise you lazy twits.

If it's about the animals being killed, well, I'm sorry. Sure it would be nice if the farms and factories would stop torturing animals... that would be great and I'm all for it, but, it wont happen just because you go vegan. I'm pretty sure you would have a very difficult time converting enough people into vegetarians or vegans to stop it from happening.

Humans are supposed to eat meat by nature. Vegans and vegetarians choose not to. I respect that and I wont bother you over it. For Pete's sake though, give me the same respect. Way too often vegans and vegetarians think they are better than someone because they want to eat meat. Then they get pushy and rude about it saying that the person is wrong for doing so. SHOVE OFF!

To answer the question of the thread... No, being vegan is not wrong, it is just in my opinion unnecessary.

[Cavernio]

Re: Is veganism wrong?

That humans needed to eat meat to survive back then does not mean that we do now. That is the only point I was making.

Funny that I am 'preaching' veganism, when I am not vegan or even vegetarian. You started a thread, yet as soon as there is discussion that may make argument, when someone opposes your view, you call it preaching. Just because the only factors I find are 'pros' to not being vegan/vegetarian are that it is easy and tasty does not mean I do not see those sides to the argument. They just happen to be, well, ignoble reasons to eat meat.

I am not going to touch the health issue with a 10 foot pole besides the fact that people can live as vegetarian and even vegans their whole lives.

I furthermore have not complained so much about animal deaths in eating the animals, but rather, how the live. Pigs dying to fumes, I'm assuming that's not normal. However, egg-laying chickens being stuffed into cages is totally normal, and any egg you buy that does not say free range or free run or organic means those chickens entire lives were to live in that cage, no room to turn around, where they essentially peck each other to death, even with trimmed beaks.
I am not vegetarian myself because I don't have issue with us raising animals and then eating them, or even killing them, or even killing them in a particularly painful way. It is the animal's life that matters to me. Even though we decided to bring that animal into being, is gruesome to then force that animal into a life of cruelty. You buy and eat tortured animals 99% of the time unless it is otherwise said, because the norm is to have factory farmed animals, because it is cheap.
If you want to eat meat, fine. But don't say that the animals you eat are by and large treated well. If you want people to stop talking to you about what you eat, then accept the fact that animals we raise are treated like shit and you, yes you, are partly responsible for that if you buy that food.
I don't care that you don't call me stupid. I care that you think veganism is stupid. That is why I am arguing for it.
Furthermore, again, the ecological value of not raising animals to eat is huge. If the human population is going to grow much more, its going to come down to giving land and food to cows or people.