Reincarnation...

[rzr]

Re: Reincarnation...

I'm quite suprised nobody questioned my percentiles in my second post of the Buddhist population in seperate regions. I realized I made a mistake, the world's Buddhist population is not 0.2 as I misread, but actually 6 percent. These figures are based on a 1998 estimated figure of a world population of 5.9 billion people. That source was The World Almanac.

I'll be back in a minute, I'm going to make that new thread I mentioned. Pretty much all of my religious knowledge and opinions will go into it.

[atalkingcow]

Re: Reincarnation...

Indeed it would be cool. I would just love a life where you are reborn again...and don't know it. I say this now, and I could've said this in my past lifetime. And I say it (again). This is why im a proclaimed agnostic.

I really don't think the discussion at hand is about whether or not it would be "cool", but more about whether or not it would be feasible (sp?).

However, I agree with your implication from the statement..

I say this now, and I could've said this in my past lifetime. And I say it (again).

History repeats itself ^_^

[devonin]

Re: Reincarnation...

You CAN remember important lessons from past lives.
All memories of your past lives are there, you just have been conditioned by society not to be able to remember them.
At some point, you will learn all that you needed to, and become part of "God" (or some variety of universal conciousness)

Well I continue to claim that I have both never met nor even heard of anybody who has provably retained memories from a past life. Virtually everyone I'm aware of who has forwarded such a claim (which includes psychic mediums who claim to divine your past lives) has invariably been found to be making it up.

I'm not saying it is impossible, I'm saying it is highly unlikely, and even if possible, most likely to be done in a way that we cannot actually tell that it is going on.

[atalkingcow]

Re: Reincarnation...

@ devonin : Could you please edit your quote to include the statement that those ideas were what I had been taught, not just me spouting out personal ideas as solid fact? ^_^

Well I continue to claim that I have both never met nor even heard of anybody who has provably retained memories from a past life. Virtually everyone I'm aware of who has forwarded such a claim (which includes psychic mediums who claim to divine your past lives) has invariably been found to be making it up.

I'm not saying it is impossible, I'm saying it is highly unlikely, and even if possible, most likely to be done in a way that we cannot actually tell that it is going on.

And again we reach the inevitable quandry of religious discussion:
Unfortunately, the fact that we cannot PROVE it, doesn't prove that it is false.
While I myself have never put much stock in psychics and mediums...(anyone who seeks monetary gain from religious beleifs is unsavory in my opinion.) I myself have experienced Deja Vecu, on multiple occasions when there was no feasible(sp?) way for me to know what was going to happen. (Deja Vecu is a version of Deja Vu involving premonitions of the immediate future due to seemingly normal stimuli. E.G.: Hearing a line in a movie you've never seen before, and getting the feeling that the phone is about to ring with very bad news.)

Deja Vu is tied into reincarnation under the idea that you may have to live almost the exact same life multiple times until you "get it right".
(I have been to a medium just for S&G, I was informed that in a past life I was burned as a witch. Made me giggle a bit.)

Basically, Reincarnation is just another of man's attempts to explain the unknown, and just happens to be the one I choose to believe.

[rzr]

Re: Reincarnation...

Oh Jesus Christ [insert long venting swear-filled message] I had so much written up just now and somehow lost it all! There's no freaking way I'm re-doing it all.

Well, anyway, let me ask you guys something: is it actually true in saying that just because nobody you've met has mentioned knowing anything about their past lives mean that they don't actually know it? I mean, thy may have just not said anything about it to you.
Personally I remember nothing of any life before this one. In fact, I have difficulty recalling certain childhood memories to begin with. But does that mean that I never had one? No. I had a childhood. I may not remember it, but I still know the lessons I learned.
For example: studies have shown that fear is induced at a very young age. When an infant is given a vaccination it feels the pain of the needle and learns to fear it.
Now does every person remember getting shots? No. But do they still know to fear them because they've always hurt? Yes.

So if an infant can learn a lesson and forget how but still know the lesson itself as an adult, why can't a person remember lessons learned in a past life without remembering how they learned them?

[atalkingcow]

Re: Reincarnation...

Oh Jesus Christ [insert long venting swear-filled message] I had so much written up just now and somehow lost it all! There's no freaking way I'm re-doing it all.

Well, anyway, let me ask you guys something: is it actually true in saying that just because nobody you've met has mentioned knowing anything about their past lives mean that they don't actually know it? I mean, thy may have just not said anything about it to you.
Personally I remember nothing of any life before this one. In fact, I have difficulty recalling certain childhood memories to begin with. But does that mean that I never had one? No. I had a childhood. I may not remember it, but I still know the lessons I learned.
For example: studies have shown that fear is induced at a very young age. When an infant is given a vaccination it feels the pain of the needle and learns to fear it.
Now does every person remember getting shots? No. But do they still know to fear them because they've always hurt? Yes.

So if an infant can learn a lesson and forget how but still know the lesson itself as an adult, why can't a person remember lessons learned in a past life without remembering how they learned them?

Omg...Beautiful!
*deletes rzr from the internets and steals his analogy as my own!*
That is such a perfect way to put that...

Sorry about your data loss though...I was looking forward to something else to read. ^_^

[rzr]

Re: Reincarnation...

It's ok. I use my phone for the internet so the more I write the slower it gets. I wrote so much when I made an error and hit back space is deleted everything I'll semi- repost it because I'd like to talk about it too.
I had sooo much! 8 basic religions, their individual sects, symbols, population/world populations, deitys, beliefs, leaders, founders, holy books!! Ahhhh! lol.

[JonXia]

Re: Reincarnation...

I just belive it is man trying to get out of believing that there is nothing after death. Same with heaven and hell and other places we concieve just so we try to avoid what might be truth.

[atalkingcow]

Re: Reincarnation...

I just belive it is man trying to get out of believing that there is nothing after death. Same with heaven and hell and other places we concieve just so we try to avoid what might be truth.

The issue with stating that there is nothing after life is that it also implies that there was nothing before life. Which leads to...If we just spontaneously appeared, what the hell is the point?

[Zythus]

Re: Reincarnation...

You're saying reincarnation is an unproven part of another religion. But all religion is unproven because there is no physical evidence to support any beliefs. If there was physical proof, it wouldn't be a religion.

And this is exactly why we have this thread. I already foreshadowed your agonostic thread closing. And no, the data is not lost, only locked for a good reason.


Cow, religion defines the meaning of life to only some people, it depends on the inidividual yet again.
Personally, throwing religion aside, I believe my meaning of life is to prove my existence and signifigance using morality. Not to prove it to anyone else, only to myself. On the basic level, a human is no more than an ant. You are both in this reality, you are both alive, you are both going to die. The difference (If you are going to just argue with me about the superiority of this, then don't bother) is that humans have the ability to think and precieve and to be concious that they are alive. If one would just live and die as a cycle, you are nothing more than an ant because you are a speck in insignifigance. This also applies between humans. What makes you different and distinct from the person next to you? You aren't. But out of the insignifigance of this world, only morality that you yourself hold justice defines the difference between you and the facelessness of the rest of this world. That, in my opinion, is to proven the existence, the unique existence that only belongs to you alone, thus the meaning of life.

Morality, does not mean the generic morals of society, however it can be. You do not need to be special to prove existence, but morality is something that only you hold dear and just.

[devonin]

Re: Reincarnation...

@ devonin : Could you please edit your quote to include the statement that those ideas were what I had been taught, not just me spouting out personal ideas as solid fact? ^_^

I don't recall saying that you were spouting personal ideas as solid fact so I'm not sure what you're asking me to edit.

And again we reach the inevitable quandry of religious discussion:
Unfortunately, the fact that we cannot PROVE it, doesn't prove that it is false.

I never said it was false because it had never been proven true. I said it -seemed more likely- to be false or at least only true in a very limited way because of the high degree of unlikliness that people have been getting reincarnated for 13,000 years and yet not a single person has ever been able to "remember" enough of a past life to make it past even a cursory examination by someone who knows their history.

While I myself have never put much stock in psychics and mediums...(anyone who seeks monetary gain from religious beleifs is unsavory in my opinion.) I myself have experienced Deja Vecu, on multiple occasions when there was no feasible(sp?) way for me to know what was going to happen. (Deja Vecu is a version of Deja Vu involving premonitions of the immediate future due to seemingly normal stimuli. E.G.: Hearing a line in a movie you've never seen before, and getting the feeling that the phone is about to ring with very bad news.)

Something happening that gives you a feeling about the future has even less to do with reincarnation than normal deja vu. The future is the opposite of the past, and past lives cannot possibly give you a premonition about the future, that's an entirely seperate power.

Deja Vu is tied into reincarnation under the idea that you may have to live almost the exact same life multiple times until you "get it right".
(I have been to a medium just for S&G, I was informed that in a past life I was burned as a witch. Made me giggle a bit.)

Well, first off, to say nothing for the fact that reincarnation involves being reborn into an entirely new body each time, thus making it pretty impossible for me to have lived "almost the exact same life" before, I mean even one generational lifetime back, and the vast majority of things in my life didn't even exist. How can I have had this forum discussion before in a time with no internet or computers?

Secondly, Deja Vu as a concept has a pretty thoroughly convincing scientific explanation. One of the effects of certain kinds of drugs is to basically scramble the input/output system of your brain, this is why people can claim to see smells, and hear colours, and this is also how synaesthisia works all the time. The input is getting rerouted through a part of the brain that it doesn't normally go through. Deja Vu is nothing more than an incoming stimulus being routed through the portion of your brain controlling memory. So the thing that is going on right then feels like you are remembering it having happened before. This is something I'm pretty sure is recreatable in labs (I'd have to do some more research into it) where they can just stimulate a certain part of your brain and create deja vu at will.

Basically, Reincarnation is just another of man's attempts to explain the unknown, and just happens to be the one I choose to believe.

Fair enough, I never once said you ought not to believe it, or that it had to be wrong. I merely observed that given all the evidence (or lack thereof) as a belief it doesn't really -mean- anything, because an inability to ever be aware of past lives means you can't learn your lessons, because you can't know what you did or didn't do right or wrong previously.

[atalkingcow]

Re: Reincarnation...

Every time I read a post by devonin...I learn something about...well...everything.
Personally, I'm going to pull out of this discussion, as I have almost no actual facts, and instead am forced to rely on unfounded, unprovable ideas. I might be back after doing some reading though.

[dood gone krazee]

Re: Reincarnation...

Reincarnation came from Hinduism.

I myself am Christian, and I don't believe in reincarnation. Not that its against my religion or whatever, I'm seriously not a religious fellow, but because I just simply think it is absurd.
Being "reborn" into another body over and over until your soul reaches perfection doesn't seem real. Now I'm not going against anyone who is Hindu, but seriously.
Deja Vu could have something to do with rencarnation. Remembering something you had done in a past life, could be true.
But in all honesty I don't believe in it. I think its just another made up thing to believe in.

[rzr]

Re: Reincarnation...

@ cow: it's religion. If you DID have physical proof I'd be more scared.

Now, based on readings in this thread I have just thought of something. Could reincarnation be the combination of deja vu and childhood innocence.

[Zythus]

Re: Reincarnation...

Do care to explain. Its not a stand alone complex.