Interesting indeed

[Cenright]

That was pretty good. Synth should hire you as a graphics artist.

[Anticrombie0909]

Lol nice pic, Lupin. Thought about going into art? It'd sell. I've seen some of the shit out there sell for hundreds of thousands, when its nothing more than scribbles or blobs. Make a few of those, fake your own death, you'll be a millionaire.

[scorpio1690]

fake your own death

You can do that just for the hell of it, people freak out

Make this back on topic, this is a good thread.

[Lupin_the_3rd]

fake my own death? like those who say they are going to "commit suicide" online?...yeah that's how I'll fake my death

[Falcon]

for the love of dead bears, please, someone respond to what i said... if not for me, to save this thread. and 87x, thanks, it was a valient effort.

[scorpio1690]

for the love of dead bears, please, someone respond to what i said... if not for me, to save this thread. and 87x, thanks, it was a valient effort.

Dead bears..Hehehe, I gotta write that one down. Anyways, ya, basically everything you said there sums up this thread, unless we go into religious things, but then jewpin would get blamed for shooting someone or something....

[jewpinthethird]

Faclon, these are questions that may never be answered. I am going to allow a some religion slip by ONLY BECAUSE this is a topic in which no one can be really offened.

Now, this is not meant to offened anyone in anyway, but I have read Genesis. "In the beginning, God created heaven and earth....etc". Now, what happened before God created Heaven and Earth? And what created God being that God is the creator of all. As in everything living and non-living, God too is made up of matter.

Now, the only explanation I can think of that would solve this, is that God is not a being of this dimension. Or maybe even a parallel universe. Again, if there was nothing before God, then it all comes back to the whole "infinity" deal.

Man, it is hard keeping my religious questions non-offensive....there is so much more that I want to say....

[87x]

Dude.. just go with it.. if people get offended its there fault not yours..

Heres what religion is to me... a bed time story... it ranks right up there with mother goose.. Religion (and when i say this i'm refering to christianity) sounds like something that someone made up to keep there kid in check....

KID: How did we get here?
MOM: umm.. God made us.. *confused look*
KID: Whats a god?
MOM: It is the thing that made up this place that we live and the earth that out home is on..
KID: Well.. im an idiot.. and because my mom said it, it must be true..

no.. Believing religion just lets you feel better when your about to die..

Dieing person who beliefs in religion: Im going to a better place

Dieing person who doesn't believe: ............

They got nothing to say.. nothing to look forward too.. so why not believe in something that can't be proved... might as well right??.. lets see.. not believe and there be a heaven so you can rot all of eternity in hell.. or believe because you got nothing better to do and get lucky to spend the rest of eternity in heaven....

I'm just taking my chances i guess.... It's easier to believe in evolution because stuff can be explained with facts.. not theorized by some guy who wrote a book and called it the bible..

And i got a question to you religious people.. if god was perfect.. and he created us in his own image.. why in the hell are we so fragile??.. i mean.. i stub my toe and it breaks.. i get up too quick and i pass out.. this doesn't sound like a perfect being to me.. there are plenty of other flaws in the human body as well.. but i would like to go onto animals instead..

Animals.. specifically the dolphin.. DID YOU KNOW that dolphins have the skeletal structure of a pelvic girdle and in some cases still a fermur bone is present in the fin? (http://library.thinkquest.org/17963/...re.html#flukes --- look at the section on hind limbs).. and also DID YOU KNOW the dolphin has two stomachs? one of which they don't use.. weird.. god is perfect.. so making a design flaw in an animal isn't possible.. SO what in the hell is that second stomach for??.. Another thing before i get burned at the stake... Why in the hell would god create an animal just for it to go extinct sometime down the future??.. thats not very smart.. it would of saved him time to just skip over all the animals ( by animals i mean all 5 kingdoms of life) that were going to go extinct, he must of known they were going to go extinct, he is god by the way..

alright im done for now..

[Falcon]

meh, pm me. i'll give you my best shots at answers.

as far as i understand your questions, being a christian myself, i answer them with faith, which is a questionable answer in itself. before heaven and earth, God was. God was not created, he just is. your explanation that God is not confined to this universe or our laws and therefore could be eternal. as i've always had it explained to me, God was, is, and always will be, kindof like a seemless ring, no beginning and no end. in this sense, i truly dont believe that the human mind can comprehend infinity.

to be honest, unless you take alot on faith (which i see as the only answer, seeing that science has no explanation and considering that thats what i base many of my arguments on) you will think what i just said is complete crap. if you have a better explanation, throw it at me.

jewpin... edit this if you need to, and pm me if you want.

edit for 87x: i wish i had answers to all of your questions. as far as why humans are frail, i would blame (according to the bible) the fall of man in the garden of eden. all was perfect before then, and it just got worse afterwards. also... i wish i were taking hebrew so i could tell you exactly what the hebrew means by "image", because i suspect that it means in his appearance... because if we were just like him we would be gods ourselves (as the mormons believe we will become). as far as the animals, i dont know exactly. why have animals gone extinct? well, for a vast majority of the animals that have gone extinct you could blame humans. deforestation, overpredation, all that good stuff. the dinosaurs? i dont know. as far as the two stomachs thing, the appendix in humans and all of that jazz, all i can say is that microevolution obviously takes place. its obvious as you look at the minor changes that happen in different generations of certain species, darwins finches for example. perhaps those stomachs in the dolphins were initially used, and became unneeded. why didnt God make them that way to begin with? well, i would say because conditions have changed over the years and generations of dolphins. the amount of food has changed, the amount of food needed to sustain their metabolism has changed, i dont know. thats my best guess. like i said, to be a religious person you have to take a good deal on faith. however, to not be a religious person, you have to take a great deal more on faith. believing abstract ideas of science, or not believing anything at all. though 87x may take no comfort from it, i take a great deal of comfort knowing that if i die and i'm right, i'm goin to heaven, and if i'm wrong, then i'll die nonetheless and i will have lived a happier life because i had religion to bank on when nothing else was there for me. as far as the bible, its true. i'll tell you my justifications later, if anyone wants to know. i'm goin to bed now. i'm hopin for some good responses by sometime tomorrow... peace.

[87x]

Im just going to quote cause its faster.. just so everyone knows im quotting falcon for all of these...

why humans are frail, i would blame (according to the bible) the fall of man in the garden of eden. all was perfect before then, and it just got worse afterwards.

I don't remember is saying anything about being "perfect" for adam and eve... i just remember they were naked.. then ate some fruit because the snake with legs (iguana) told them too.. so after they did god told them they had to wear clothes and then took the snakes legs away from him so he would have to slither on his stomach everywhere for the rest of time..

i wish i were taking hebrew so i could tell you exactly what the hebrew means by "image", because i suspect that it means in his appearance... because if we were just like him we would be gods ourselves (as the mormons believe we will become)

Well... i was talking about in his own image as in appearance... and another thing on that.. why are there black/asain/indians/whites and everyother ethnic group i left out... "made in his apperance" indians and blacks don't look the same.... neither do asains and whites.. unless they are talking about physical body structure.. but then there would be a problem with the midgets and/or anyone else that an apperance altering disease..

as far as the animals, i dont know exactly. why have animals gone extinct? well, for a vast majority of the animals that have gone extinct you could blame humans. deforestation, overpredation, all that good stuff

Overpredation??.. you would think god would know how to balance out the ecosystems a little better...

as far as the two stomachs thing, the appendix in humans and all of that jazz, all i can say is that microevolution obviously takes place. its obvious as you look at the minor changes that happen in different generations of certain species, darwins finches for example. perhaps those stomachs in the dolphins were initially used, and became unneeded. why didnt God make them that way to begin with? well, i would say because conditions have changed over the years and generations of dolphins. the amount of food has changed, the amount of food needed to sustain their metabolism has changed, i dont know. thats my best guess

Yea.. well heres my best guess... follow the chart
Amino acids -> DNA -> Single Celled -> Multi Cellular (sp?) -> Plants
^---> Single Celled ^--> Animals -V
V---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
V->Fish -> fish
V->Amphibious Bugs -> Regular Bugs
>->Amphibians -> Reptiles
^->Dynapsids -> Gators/Lizards
- ^->Dinosaurs -> Birds
-->Synapsids ->Mammals -> Great Apes -> Prime Apes -> Humans

Yea.. im sure yall can figure that out.. Evolution baby.. the reason we are here today..

though 87x may take no comfort from it,

I take comfort knowing that when i die, well.. i dont know what will happen.. people say that when you die your brain stire fires its nerve pulses for 15 seconds.. and while sleeping you know that 15 secs can seem like an eternity.. so thats probably the reviewing of there life sensation people always talk about getting right before they die or think they are about to die or come back from the dead
(no im not talking about zombies, im talking about when you flat line for like 10 seconds.. then come back).. but i can't really say whats comming for me in death, because the more you think about the more confused you get... try it..

[Anticrombie0909]

I don't believe in heaven or hell. I believe that when you die, your brain stops working, you're done. Gone. If you think about it, there's no logical reason for you to have a 'soul' or whatever you want to call it.

[makaveli121212]

1) I don't remember is saying anything about being "perfect" for adam and eve... i just remember they were naked.. then ate some fruit because the snake with legs (iguana) told them too.. so after they did god told them they had to wear clothes and then took the snakes legs away from him so he would have to slither on his stomach everywhere for the rest of time..

2) Well... i was talking about in his own image as in appearance... and another thing on that.. why are there black/asain/indians/whites and everyother ethnic group i left out... "made in his apperance" indians and blacks don't look the same.... neither do asains and whites.. unless they are talking about physical body structure.. but then there would be a problem with the midgets and/or anyone else that an apperance altering disease..

3) Overpredation??.. you would think god would know how to balance out the ecosystems a little better...

4) Yea.. well heres my best guess... follow the chart
Amino acids -> DNA -> Single Celled -> Multi Cellular (sp?) -> Plants
^---> Single Celled ^--> Animals -V
V---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
V->Fish -> fish
V->Amphibious Bugs -> Regular Bugs
>->Amphibians -> Reptiles
^->Dynapsids -> Gators/Lizards
- ^->Dinosaurs -> Birds
-->Synapsids ->Mammals -> Great Apes -> Prime Apes -> Humans

Yea.. im sure yall can figure that out.. Evolution baby.. the reason we are here today..

5) I take comfort knowing that when i die, well.. i dont know what will happen.. people say that when you die your brain stire fires its nerve pulses for 15 seconds.. and while sleeping you know that 15 secs can seem like an eternity.. so thats probably the reviewing of there life sensation people always talk about getting right before they die or think they are about to die or come back from the dead
(no im not talking about zombies, im talking about when you flat line for like 10 seconds.. then come back).. but i can't really say whats comming for me in death, because the more you think about the more confused you get... try it..

ok here i go...

1) yes actually things were perfect, there was no death or disease and there was no sin...yet, until they ate the fruit...then common feelings like shame (nakedness) and so on came to be

2) i think humans look more like god than a owl...i think thats the point...the bible isnt always to be taken literally, especially the old testament...if god were human, which he was, he would be a primate, homsapien

3) God knows everything

4) ok, well thats is all based on theory...amino acids cannot just form DNA, plus the first genetic material on the planet was RNA, becuase it is so much more simple...and DNA cant just make cells

5) only if you try it first

btw i do not consider my self a very religous person, so matbe im worng on some of those issues, but i answered to the best of my knowledge

[Lupin_the_3rd]

I myself consider a majority of the old testament bs, however:

Can you prove that god doesn't exist in any way?no
Can you prove that god does exist in any way?no
could god have set up the world like a clock (age of reason) and let it tick and step away? yes

[VxDx]

Here's the thing...I'm agnostic. I don't believe a god if there was one would be able to be proven or disproven. As such, I live my life as though there were no god. The problem with the arguement either for or against god is that by the other-worldly nature of god himself, no worldly proof against him can be used. Being human, the only disproof of god would be inherantly worldly. The same goes for any proof of god's existance. Here's an example.

If god is the creator, then what created god?
God existed and will exist forever.
But that is impossible.
God is not based in the rules of this world (hahaha sounds like the matrix).


Personally, the best disproof of a god that I can offer is that people having free will and god being omniscient together are a juxtaposition.

[Lupin_the_3rd]

Here's the thing...I'm agnostic. I don't believe a god if there was one would be able to be proven or disproven. As such, I live my life as though there were no god. The problem with the arguement either for or against god is that by the other-worldly nature of god himself, no worldly proof against him can be used. Being human, the only disproof of god would be inherantly worldly. The same goes for any proof of god's existance. Here's an example.

If god is the creator, then what created god?
God existed and will exist forever.
But that is impossible.
God is not based in the rules of this world (hahaha sounds like the matrix).


Personally, the best disproof of a god that I can offer is that people having free will and god being omniscient together are a juxtaposition.

the Matrix is one of the most religous based movies (if you are sophisticated enough to interpret it)