How old is old enough?

[Shashakiro]

Re: How old is old enough?

To be with other underage: 14

To be with overage: 16

"Of age": 18

IMO.

Note that this is assuming you're talking about what it should be LEGALLY. I think there's a HUGE difference between what it should be LEGALLY and what it should be practically, or morally.

[JKPolk]

Re: How old is old enough?

One of the largest things that brings about a change in maturity is having a real job. I'm not talking a McDonald's shift once a week after your study hall. I'm talking a full fledged, 40 hour a week job that honestly requires effort. I was a stonemason's apprentice last summer and I'll tell you what, I matured more during that summer than at any point in my life.

I truly learned the value of money and especially how to behave in tricky situations. You learn what the right and wrong times are for certain things, and what their effects are. Getting a job that matters is about forty life lessons packed into one suppository pill.

Those rich, spoiled kids you see on TV? Never had a real job. Immature. Get a job, work at it for months and do well, and then look back at yourself 2 years ago and tell me how mature you really think you were at that time.

[Reach]

Re: How old is old enough?

Well, chronological age is different from mental age. You can't say how mature someone is by knowing how old they are. Of course people get more mature with age, but that doesn't mean there arn't younger people that are already twice as mature as some people over the legal limit.

That's the problem, in a nutshell. Chronological age doesn't tell you the mental age of someone, so how much responsibility someone should be able to carry varies greatly within a population. Things that bring about maturity also vary greatly.

I was mature at 16. Mature enough to make smart, solid decisions. Am I wiser and more knowledgable now? Yes, of course. That doesn't mean I shouldn't have had any responsibility at that age.

However, 18 is probably a safer age to apply to an entire population when talking about 'legal' issues, but people under this age should still be held responsible for their actions. As far as I know, mental development stops between the age of 16 and 18 in most people, so 21 to me seems irrelevant. People of age 18 are capable of being just as mature as anyone else is, but since wisdom and knowledge are gained over time naturally people that are older are more developed in these areas.

[purebloodtexan]

Re: How old is old enough?

You seen, in America, we have something called a "legal system" and the concept of "property". People like to protect their "property", and one easy way to do that is to keep their "property" out of the hands of teenagers and other young drivers.

That's not bull**** or stupid in the slightest. It put a serious damper on my parents' honeymoon, but hey, rental car companies would like to retain their expensive capital.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

My brother is probably the best driver that I know. Age doesn't determine the driver, that's what I'm saying.

I might've sounded a bit one-sided earlier. Maybe what I'm trying to say is that they should look a bit further than the age of a person to determine how responsible he/she is. That said, I'm still on Wolf's side: Age isn't the absolute indicator of maturity.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: How old is old enough?

My brother is probably the best driver that I know. Age doesn't determine the driver, that's what I'm saying.

Tell that to insurance companies.

Maybe what I'm trying to say is that they should look a bit further than the age of a person to determine how responsible he/she is.

Yes, rental car companies are going to require driving tests of all their customers to see exactly how they will treat the rental car under every circumstance. That's ludicrous.

My friend got a rental car when he was 20 because his other car was in the shop and he was allowed to rent through his insurance company. He's a fine driver, and would easily pass for responsible, but since it was just a rental car he drove the **** out of it, went and did donuts and other things to it.

So how, praytell, do you think a company should determine maturity of its customers? Keep in mind that they still have a business to run and customer service to consider.

Age isn't the absolute indicator of maturity.

Of course it's not; nobody's ever suggested otherwise!

It IS, however, the best way to draw the line, and until you can come up with a better, realistic way, you're spinning your wheels.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[slipstrike0159]

Re: How old is old enough?

I wholeheartedly agree that each case should be handled with by the individuals personality and past decisions and not necessarily their age because, as has been stated, some kids know exactly what they are doing and they know they can get away with it. Now let me explain myself a little better, although each case should involve the individual, i think that a good general age where people should be completely accountable would be 19. As with the job theory, having being out and on your own for a while you will gain a bunch of life experiences and it will make you wise up to the fact that you are accountable for what you do. This does not mean in any way that people should not be held accountable before the age of 19, i just feel that this is a good general age although as i have said, each case should be determined by behavior and tendencies. If a kid gets in fights all the time at school and ends up killing someone, most people would say "he knew what he was doing, throw him in jail" now if all the facts pointed to cold blooded murder and possible that it was premeditated then sure go ahead. Although, no one should be completely judged based on age or previous actions because who knows, he could have just been screwing around got carried away or some unfortunate circumstance took place.

[Tisthammerw]

Re: How old is old enough?

Should a sixteen year old be completely responsible for the consequences of his decisions on the matter of sexual relations and other life-changing decisions? No. Should a sixteen year old be responsible if he kills a man in cold blood? Yes. You learn that a lot earlier.

That's probably the best response I've seen for the "you can get tried for murder but not responsible enough for sexual relations" objection. Hence, laws like statutory rape are still a good thing (though albeit not necessarily perfect in all cases).

[purebloodtexan]

Re: How old is old enough?

Yes, rental car companies are going to require driving tests of all their customers to see exactly how they will treat the rental car under every circumstance. That's ludicrous.

My friend got a rental car when he was 20 because his other car was in the shop and he was allowed to rent through his insurance company. He's a fine driver, and would easily pass for responsible, but since it was just a rental car he drove the **** out of it, went and did donuts and other things to it.

So how, praytell, do you think a company should determine maturity of its customers? Keep in mind that they still have a business to run and customer service to consider.

They document people's car accidents, right? Depending on what is put on paper, they could come up with something similar to a "3 strikes" system (I'm going to have to demonstrate my brother's accident in a minute), seeing if it was really the driver's fault. Think of it like a resume.

[kylehaas]

Re: How old is old enough?

I think a teenager becomes an Adult once he or she is responsible enough to be able to care for children... as for the matter of making the children- marriage must come first. =)

[Tisthammerw]

Re: How old is old enough?

Now, here's the bull**** part: In order to even get a car under your name, you have to be 21, and to have a 2nd driver, that 2nd driver has to be 25.

Do you really need to be over 20 to know how to properly drive?

Here's the part I find kind of odd. People can legally drive all by themselves at 16, but not rent a car until they're 21? And they cannot rent a car by themselves until they are 25? When you're 18, you can vote, see porn movies, get drafted in the military to kill other people and die for your country. It seems reasonable that you should be able to rent a car at this age.

[Shashakiro]

Re: How old is old enough?

They document people's car accidents, right? Depending on what is put on paper, they could come up with something similar to a "3 strikes" system (I'm going to have to demonstrate my brother's accident in a minute), seeing if it was really the driver's fault. Think of it like a resume.

Um, the whole point is to avoid having any accidents whatsoever. THREE accidents? If you've gotten yourself into THREE at-fault accidents, you should probably have your license revoked. Forget about insurance prices or anything like that at that point.

[JKPolk]

Re: How old is old enough?

Here's the part I find kind of odd. People can legally drive all by themselves at 16, but not rent a car until they're 21? And they cannot rent a car by themselves until they are 25? When you're 18, you can vote, see porn movies, get drafted in the military to kill other people and die for your country. It seems reasonable that you should be able to rent a car at this age.

You know why? It's because there are a LOT of situations in driving that require reactions on instinct. You don't have the instincts to drive correctly in tough situations without years of experience. Think about it this way; you're playing a game where if your character dies, it's gone forever. Now, you've been playing this game for years and have this incredibly awesome character that you've invested a portion of your life into.

Would you let someone who's been playing the game for a week come along and play that character in a dangerous dungeon?

[Tisthammerw]

Re: How old is old enough?

Here's the part I find kind of odd. People can legally drive all by themselves at 16, but not rent a car until they're 21? And they cannot rent a car by themselves until they are 25? When you're 18, you can vote, see porn movies, get drafted in the military to kill other people and die for your country. It seems reasonable that you should be able to rent a car at this age.

You know why? It's because there are a LOT of situations in driving that require reactions on instinct. You don't have the instincts to drive correctly in tough situations without years of experience.

Then why bother allowing them to drive in the first place? Remember, at age 18 they can legally drive all by themselves. Hence the oddity (among other things) of not being able to rent a car all by themselves (even though they can own one).

I know car rental companies want to be extra cautious and allow only older people to rent their property. Still, it seems a bit odd that 18-year old people cannot in practice rent a car even though they can own one to drive all by themselves. After all, owning a car requires more responsibility than merely renting one (to say nothing of the superior responsibilities of fighting and dying for your country…).

[drummerlsu]

Re: How old is old enough?

Here's the part I find kind of odd. People can legally drive all by themselves at 16, but not rent a car until they're 21? And they cannot rent a car by themselves until they are 25? When you're 18, you can vote, see porn movies, get drafted in the military to kill other people and die for your country. It seems reasonable that you should be able to rent a car at this age.

I'm not sure where you're getting this rule. I rented a car under my own name for an extra fee. I was under the impression it was the rental companies themselves that made these rules. Who's to argue with them not wanting to rent to a group of the population that is much more likely to wreck their cars??

[JKPolk]

Re: How old is old enough?

The reason why they can drive by themselves is shown in the video game example I made. It's the driver's car, if they **** it up it's their problem. But The rental companies spend a lot of money getting and maintaining cars, they don't need some kid with too little experience making a simple judgment error and totaling their car.